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Flight #18: Money Advice To Share With Your Kids

Pilot Money Guys:

Kids and Money!

Welcome to Flight #18, where we are discussing kids and money!

This podcast is all about helping your kids take the first steps to financial freedom and independence. We discuss some of the steps we all wish we would have taken when we were first starting out as new savers and investors.

We believe we should help our kids learn from other's successes and mistakes - We do not have time to make them all ourselves! In fact, life is a series of building off the successes and failures we all experience. Sharing those lessons with our kids is easy in some areas but with finances it can be tough. Don’t let that stop you from preparing them for a great financial future.

“Children are sponges—they are going to absorb whatever is around them, so we need to be intentional about what surrounds them.” — Dave Ramsey

Our kids will learn from our money habits whether we like it or not. We encourage parents to communicate money matters to their kids as well as be honest and transparent as much as possible, so they don’t make the same money mistakes we made.

In this podcast we cover the most important financial topics for getting started. We believe this content can help you have great conversations with your kids. They still won’t think your cool, but I bet they’ll listen and learn something.

Our goal for our clients is to help their kids build a foundation of financial knowledge that will set them up for success in the future!

Thank you for listening!

This hypothetical illustration assumes an annual 6% return. The illustration doesn't represent any particular investment, nor does it account for inflation. Source:https://investor.vanguard.com/retirement/savings/when-to-start

This chart shows that if you start saving earlier, you can have a higher balance at retirement than someone who saves more but starts later. If you contribute $10,000 a year from age 25 to age 40, for a total investment of $150,000, it could grow to $1,058,912 by the time you're age 65. If you contribute $10,000 a year from age 35 to age 65, for a total investment of $300,000, it could grow to $838,019 by the time you're age 65.

 

Can You Beat COWBELL in timing the market?!

https://www.personalfinanceclub.com/time-the-market-game/

 

Podcast Transcription:

Flight #18: Kids and Money

[00:00:00] Voice Actor: ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard the pilot money guys podcast, where our mission is to help clients build and protect wealth to achieve their dreams. And. This podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning without further ado. Here is your host Robert equity.

[00:00:31] Rob: Hey folks. Welcome to flight 18.

[00:00:34] We're talking kids and money today. The tip of the Kaptio. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast, where we cover some airline news except for today. And of course, a financial times. We aim to educate and bring some lighthearted financial fund to your day. I'm your host, Rob Ackland.

[00:00:50] I'm a little under the weather. So the godfather Charlie Madingley certified financial planner and leading edge founder is with us. Hello godfather. Hello? Hello.

[00:00:59] Charlie: How's it going? I'm sorry. You're feeling feeling badly, but uh, we're gonna, you all were trying to keep me down last time. I was feeling bad. So this time we kicked you out, you're down to.

[00:01:12] Rob: So you

[00:01:12] Ben: wouldn't fight and he's also rocking a mustache for all that. Anyone on

[00:01:17] Charlie: YouTube, how to do the YouTube, which really makes my teeth look huge. It looks

[00:01:21] Rob: great. Yeah. Does dentist nice? I've of course set a little shout out to Alaska or Borealis. That's my background. Yeah. Ben's got the max. You got the max is your background.

[00:01:34] Ben: And I do, I do have the max. Yeah. Um,

[00:01:38] Charlie: the good oldest button that was the good old days.

[00:01:41] Rob: Oh, that's the ejection button don't hit that don't hit. Oh yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Well, and of course we've got Mr. Cal bell Ben tickets and welcome Ben. Thank you. Good to be

[00:01:51] Ben: here. All

[00:01:52] Charlie: right. Did you introduce yourself as a mallet?

[00:01:55] Rob: I did it today. You know, why, why have calls me the Viking idiot? Any of those can, I

[00:02:02] Charlie: will answer. You can substitute. And I mean, I'm starting to like Malad a little bit, I think it sounds kind of cool if you, if you just absolutely reject that notion, we will, we will start again, but you can't. But I like it because we started off as the MC hammer, which was a little too much too strong, but you are the MC and you are a hammer, but then you said, Hey, let's soften that a bit.

[00:02:22] So we went to rubber. Rubber mallets too many syllables and too many words. Yes.

[00:02:29] Rob: Well, last my days is an evaluator MC hammer.

[00:02:34] Charlie: I'm seeing him. So, I mean, I don't know a mallet that is really starting to sound pretty good. Just as long as we keep the story from straying too far from the temporary nature, we have 10% rule.

[00:02:44] Rob: Okay, fantastic. Well, we're going to talk some aviation news. I've got this one. I think. So there's this day in history, actually, it wasn't from today, but it's from two days ago. Close enough. On October 12th, 1944. First Lieutenant Charles Elwood, Yeager of the air Corps army. The United States shut down five count of five.

[00:03:11] in one second. Wow. Becoming an ACE in a day. That's air quotes. They're ACE in a day. The termination today is used to designate a pilot who shut down five or more airplanes in a single day, based on the usual definition of. As one with five or more aerial victories. Right. Wow. That's incredible.

[00:03:28] Charlie: That's

[00:03:29] Ben: amazing.

[00:03:30] Was it just, uh, you know, best, you know, right place, right time.

[00:03:34] Rob: Oh man. So I've got, I've got his, I've got his whole quote cause it's it's worth now. He was a P 51, a Mustang fighter pilot signed it a three 63rd fighter squadron near the village of, uh, I might be butchering this, but that Britain Suffolk.

[00:03:50] Albertson's pretty good. Pretty good.

[00:03:52] Charlie: As far as I

[00:03:52] Rob: know, anyways, here's Jagger's quote, it was almost comic scoring two quick victories without firing a shot. By now, all the airplanes in the sky had dropped their wing tanks and were spinning and diving in a wild wide open dog fight. I guess two of them collided.

[00:04:07] I stopped shooting at him. I blew up a 1 0 9 from 600 yards, uh, my third victory. So he shot at one of them and he hit his wing man and they both had. So he didn't. So I guess he barely had to do two for one, two for one. And then when I turned to see another angling in behind me, man, I pulled back the throttle.

[00:04:26] So bleep hard. I nearly stalled rolled up and over. It came in behind and under him kicking right rudder and simultaneously firing. It was directly underneath the guy less than 50 feet. And I opened up the 1 0 9 as if it were a can of spam.

[00:04:40] Charlie: Less than 50

[00:04:40] Rob: feet. 50 feet that made four that's incredible moment.

[00:04:46] A moment later, I waxed the guy's Fanny and a steep dive. I pulled up at about a thousand feet. You went straight into the ground. Crazy. Wow. You're talking 12, 19 44. Top. That really is awesome. Top that

[00:05:01] Charlie: cowbell. That's

[00:05:01] Ben: pretty incredible. I mean, I've done some cool stuff. My drone. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:05:07] I mean, Chuck would be proud, but I can't beat that. You're right.

[00:05:14] Rob: That's a good one. All right. Any other things we want to

[00:05:19] Charlie: talk about? Nothing going on at all in the world of aviation to see here. Nope. Turn away from anything you see in the news. Yeah. Vaccinations airlines. We're not, uh, we're not, we're going to stay lighthearted today, folks. Okay. There's a lot of serious stuff going on.

[00:05:37] And I told Rob today, look, we got to have some humor. How else can you get through these times? Without some humor, you gotta laugh. You gotta laugh about it. Otherwise you'll go crazy. So that's what we're doing. We're not going to address those things today. Too many variables too. Uh, too many unknowns and let's do a hurtful still.

[00:05:53] So we'll wait. Yeah, we'll wait

[00:05:55] Rob: too soon to right. Well, let's get into our financial topic then this one, actually, I'm really excited about it's kids in. And how do you talk to your kids about money? What are some things to think about? We're going to cover the mentality you should use, how they should use money.

[00:06:11] When they first get started at a young age, the savings and investing, they should do, um, three different ways. You can choose to save with them. And of course, in that, we're going to talk about UTMs and Ross. Um, and we'll get into. Charlie, what have you got anything? Oh, right off the bat. We're talking mentality.

[00:06:31] Oh,

[00:06:31] Charlie: we got tons of stuff. The toughest part about today is keeping it, , succinct and meaningful. , we're going to try to give some real practical applications to kids and money, just stuff we've learned from other,, people that we know clients have taught us a lot of things to do with their.

[00:06:51] Ben is, uh, is the one that remembers it the most clearly, I think. Right. And so he can help us a little bit. It's been a while for you and I Rob, especially, especially me, but I do remember a lot now, in fact, that the first thing that I remember, uh, or sticks in my brain and, and, and helped me get a good star and overcome some of my other Follies down the road.

[00:07:13] I was just starting early. And let me, I'm going to share with you guys, um, and, and our YouTube audience as well, but check the power of starting early is unbelievable. Okay. So here we go. Um, and we'll talk to this graphic, but again, our podcast listeners go to YouTube, check this out or Google it it's everywhere.

[00:07:35] So here's an example and the power of starting now and Ben, you and I, the other day, we're talking to, uh, one of our. Sons. He just is getting started in the workforce. He's got a great job, right? And he's like, Hey, he called us up, which is awesome. We encourage all of our clients, kids to call us. We love to talk about it.

[00:07:55] He was actually 25. So he said, this is perfect. This is you. So if you start saving at 25 and in this example on the screen, You say you start saving at 25, you save $10,000 a year. I don't know the rate of return in this particular example, I think it's five, six or seven doesn't matter because it kind of cancels out.

[00:08:12] The point is still the same, uh, in the, in the, in the examples. Anyway, so this person started saving a 25, 10,000 a year. They invested it and they stopped saving at age 40. Now at age 65, they had a little over a million. Now, this person's friend, we'll call him. Ben Dickinson started saving at 35 and they saved all the way they did not.

[00:08:40] You know, they started at 35 instead of 25. They started, they saved all the way through 65 and they only ended up with 840,000 versus the over a million. So let me re reiterate Ben's friend saved at 28, 25 for 15 years in. They had a million bucks, Ben say from 35 to 65, 30 years. And it has 840,000. I mean it's yeah,

[00:09:08] Ben: that hurts.

[00:09:08] That really hurts seeing that I knew my friend was doing well, but I, I didn't realize that. Well, he saved half as much as me. Yes.

[00:09:18] Charlie: It's that really was wild. All right, Rob, what do you think? Beautiful. Any thoughts? I love it. It's powerful.

[00:09:25] Rob: I, you know, I think it can kind of tie into, um, you know, just the power of saving early, which there's a mentality on that.

[00:09:34] And I think we should get in a little bit of that. I think when you talk to your kids about money, you should have an abundance mentality . And instead of using certain language, like we can't.

[00:09:44] When you go to the store and you're looking to buy a toy or whatever. Um, it's I think a little bit more helpful to say we haven't budgeted for that at this time, or how are we going to afford that? How are we going to budget for that in the future? So if we prioritize that you want that Tonka toy, well, let's save for it.

[00:10:01] Let's see how we're going to get there. Um, and I think families that actually have conversations about money. It probably as long as they're not too negative. I think it has. People get comfortable with the idea, as opposed to, , there's certain families that, that money is taboo. Ask your dad how much he makes is just not anything you would do.

[00:10:20] And I think that just kinda makes the subject of money taboo. So you don't want to talk about it, maybe it's evil. And, uh, the other thing is when families get into the, to a, probably a bad scenario where they're highly. Certain, thanks from their significant others, such as you hide, you know, you go off to a clothing store or toy store and you say, Hey, it's going to be our secret.

[00:10:43] We're not gonna tell mom about this. Probably not the best thing. Cause you're just teaching them. You know that again, money's kind of evil. Um, so yeah, we wanna, we want to teach the abundance mentality where you're saying, Hey, you've got to. Well, let's see how we're going to get it. And then the reason they're getting the toys, because you were smart with your money, as opposed to just saying they can't have it.

[00:11:05] And the reason why they can have it is because of money. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah,

[00:11:10] Charlie: yeah. Same. We can't afford it kind of, kind of a cop out just saying we can't afford it and maybe that's true, you know, sometimes, uh, but, uh, but I like what you're saying, especially. Um, about the communicating abundance mentality, you know, and, and to me, abundance mentality means being generous.

[00:11:24] And I think there's a whole lot to learn there. That's a whole nother podcast, but one of the things, um, before I hand it off to, uh, the, uh, what's your name again, been the, uh, we call on because Jesus, today we call you cowbell. Before I ended off to Cabell, , one of the things I, I tried, I've tried this with my 15 year old daughter, because when we.

[00:11:45] See clients and, uh, talk to them and just friends and family, you know, sometimes their parents did it, right. They did a good job or the best they could, but if it's not communicated, there are misunderstandings. So not only is it important to behave well as an example to your children, but you have to tell your children how you're behaving to make it clear because there will be misunderstand.

[00:12:10] , you're talking about a young kid looking at something that they don't understand, and they're going to learn lessons from that, whether you like it or not. So I just wanted to expound on what you said, Rob, it's super important, but a cowbell. What do you

[00:12:21] Ben: think? Yeah, I think I'm going back to what Rob was saying that, that kind of teaches more financial independence as well, which is what you're going to.

[00:12:32] When you, when you go out on your own is okay. All of a sudden I'm not getting any support from anybody. Would I, how am I going to manage my finances? And personally, um, I had a lot, uh, I had support going through school and, and, um, but once I graduated, once I got my job after school, it was like, well, here you are, you're on your own.

[00:12:53] You know, you have to, you have to budget. You have to, uh, set your goals. If you want to buy something, you can't, you maybe can't buy it right when you want. And sometimes that can be a really difficult transition, um, and starting to, to create that mentality of abundance. And Hey, if you want something you're going to have to work for it, um, or you're going to have to save or set it as a goal.

[00:13:14] I think starting that as, as early as possible is going to be, there's going to be really huge. I think, um, we've talked about, about this. , you want, you want the best for your kids. You want them to, you know, maybe be in a better position than you were at their. Um, but sometimes there are lessons that need to be learned.

[00:13:31] , and the only way to learn them is to , let them do it themselves. And so you, you may even be able to afford the toys that, that they're wanting, but sometimes it, maybe it's better to just say, Hey, let's, let's figure out how you can buy this yourself. And not only that, but at the end of the day, you feel better about yourself.

[00:13:45] You've accomplished it and you've worked and saved and gotten the thing that you want. Um, and that's a really valuable lesson. , when you're a young adult,

[00:13:52] Rob: Yeah. I think there's a key distinction there. When you're talking abundance mentality, it's just the way you're going about your life, that money.

[00:13:59] Isn't something that is so limited that you can't do certain things. It's more, Hey, we can use money to our advantage. And how do we do that? It's not, um, would, I think a lot of parents who have gotten into the habit of, and I'm certain, I'm probably guilty of it. Myself is just, you know, you know, handing my kid, whatever they want at certain times.

[00:14:18] And that's not helpful either. I don't think, uh, just giving them whatever they want or, you know, obviously they get spoiled and they don't understand the meaning of money. Tell you we're going to say something.

[00:14:27] Charlie: I mean, I think this podcast is, is fun because we're talking about. We're talking to young adults that are just getting started at college, was talking to parents of young kids.

[00:14:37] Like we have a Rob and we're talking to. Ben's age group as well on, on maybe even some things on what accounts to invest in. We'll talk about that in a minute, but it's a funny story real quick with my, uh, gosh, I can't remember how old my daughter was. I don't know, 8, 9, 10. I would give her like five bucks and said, you can have these $5 and let's go to Walmart and, you know, take her to the toy section and hunter, you can buy whatever you want.

[00:15:02] Cause I wanted her to make these choices for trade-offs. Well, you can have this, but, uh, but you could also have this and just, you know, thinking about that. So you probably know already what I'm going to get get at. And that's when I gave her $5, she came back to me after 20 minutes, I was like, dad, I can't buy anything, nothing to buy when $5.

[00:15:22] I was like, okay, sorry. A little out of touch here, but just some practical, stuff. As far as savings, we talked about saving early, , parents, you can start a custodial Roth. We'll talk about the nuts and bolts of that in a minute, you can start a UTMA or sometimes they're called . We'll talk about the pros and cons in a minute as well.

[00:15:44] Uh, we could do a whole podcast on each one of those, but another technique is to match the CA your, your child's savings. Hey, you save a hundred bucks. I'm at you a hundred dollars. That's training, , for, for future savings and 401ks and such,.

[00:15:58] Somebody told me . One time, they said, we give our kids allowances or pay them for chores. And we encourage them to save 10% to give away 10% to something that they find meaning. And then do the rest with whatever they want. You know, that's a pretty good little habit pattern and kind of like you said, Rob teaches , the abundance mentality.

[00:16:18] And so I think that's a really good technique as well.

[00:16:22] Rob: Yeah, for sure. I think I'm kind of backing up a little bit when you very first start with your kids being tangible or using tangible money, using cold, hard cash. Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah. When they can see the value of a dollar and they can see it coming in and you pay them for whatever work they did and they see it going out when they buy whatever it is they want, that helps them get an understanding of, oh, I can't work for this.

[00:16:50] I got this amount of money and it's going out. Eventually they're going to graduate. Right. They're going to graduate to apps. And of course, with all the technology, these days, they're going to have debit cards or credit cards or whatever they're going to use. And they're going to have an app on their phone.

[00:17:03] Tied to that. And even then be as tangible as you can be right with them. So like for my son, we have a capital 1, 360, a high yield savings account for him. And we'll get into that a little bit. I think it's, uh, uh, it's too much fun. I geek out about it, but I think, you know, when I, when I pay him for doing, uh, an extra job around the house , he does certain chores just because he's part of the family.

[00:17:23] He doesn't get paid for that. He can go above and beyond and do other things. Did he gets paid for it. So when he does those, I actually slide and there's a transfer, uh, slide to transfer on your, on your iPhone. Uh, when you're in new capital 1, 360 account, and you just slide it and it shows it going into his account and you can actually look and say, okay, the money's transferred from my account and now your accounts up $10 or $20 or whatever it is.

[00:17:48] And I think just kind of having that, Account where you can see that's a, I'm losing the word here, but a tangible, tangible, there we go. That's the one where you can actually feel it. , see it, touch it. And they see, okay. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, in my account now, as opposed to you just give them an open-ended account and all of a sudden they're out of money and,

[00:18:10] Ben: so yeah, my, my parents tried to teach me how to balance a checkbook and I don't think since then, I have ever used to balance a checkbook cause everything's on, on the app.

[00:18:20] I mean, they're so, um, anyway, that's just kind of, didn't really help me at all.

[00:18:27] Rob: Right?

[00:18:28] Charlie: What I liked about what you said, Rob, when you pay your children allowance, there's there's stuff they should be doing because they're part of the.

[00:18:37] Cleaning the room picking up after themselves, whatever. Hey, you're part of this unit. However, if you want to do something extra, , like Polish my shoes or something. No, no, I'm not. I'm positive. Mow the grass or whatever then. Yeah, that's an allowance, so we talked about, , saving how to help your children get started on that, you know, spending plans and Ben, you mentioned setting goals and saving for them, , teaching that delayed gratification, which is huge, which I don't think any of us have anymore, but what we call this, uh, in the nerd nerd world or financial planning is bringing these future expenses into the.

[00:19:14] And that applies to all of us, by the way, today I was working on my spending plan for the next quarter and I had to put on there, uh, a new car, probably not a new car, but a used car. And I haven't had a car payment a long time and it's going to hurt, but we, we just recently lost a car, which is another story for another day, but it's painful.

[00:19:34] So I had to put it in there and it's painful. I got to face. But bring those expenses that are 1, 2, 3 years out, bring them in platform right now.

[00:19:43] Ben: . Yeah. Um, absolutely. The first thing, just, just for, for the spending plan thing.

[00:19:49] Uh, first, first big purchase. After I started my first job, I went out and bought a, a medical. Um, literally with my first, my first paycheck. And then I had, uh, I had the rest of the month where then I realized, oh, oh crap. I didn't not have no more, no more money left for groceries. I really did. And so then.

[00:20:14] Everybody was asked it was worth it. Yeah. And then I had to call a call, uh, call my parents. And can you send me like a hundred dollars for some groceries? And they're like, what happened? Uh,

[00:20:29] Charlie: nothing at all. I would never do such a thing

[00:20:36] Rob: as we're talking about that budgeting. I think I do think one of the things we should touch on here is automating it, right?

[00:20:42] If you can, and there's two sides to that coin. Obviously, if you audit. You know, the payments going in, they don't see it. And they just, they just get used to money coming in. If they don't see that it's tied to the work, but when you automate it, when they, uh, you know, as far as their savings and investing, it can make it a lot easier.

[00:21:01]

[00:21:01] Charlie: Another technique is,, when you're, I don't know what age is appropriate, maybe 12, you know, when they can first start understanding stock ownership, as we're driving down the road, I would talk to my daughter, Hey, , you can own part of Walmart, , Hey, we go to Disney, you can own part of it.

[00:21:16] And what are you talking about? So then you go, Hey, I'm going to buy you a, a piece of a stock. You can actually buy single stock, stockpile.com. We should get paid for all our advertising today, by the way. But I stockpile dot copy, print out a, um, a certificate and frame it.

[00:21:30] Put other walls, say you own a piece of Disney. , that's great learning. Now, once you learn that lesson, then tell them we don't want to want to own just one company that we want to talk about. Mutual funds, ETFs, et cetera. But the lesson of ownership is good. Just be careful, you know, don't make, don't make a bunch of speculators out of your children at age 15.

[00:21:50] Ben: Just going to say, I need, I need a piece of paper like that for my Bitcoin. Um, so that it makes me feel like I own something other

[00:21:58] Charlie: a second. I thought you had coins. You don't have coins.

[00:22:02] Ben: Oh man. Here I go. Now we'll talk off the, off on this one. Just actual coin, the recording. Okay. I hate to break to you.

[00:22:10] There's nothing there. I don't have a gun.

[00:22:13] Charlie: Oh, this is. Yep. We're gonna have another, have another podcast on the Bitcoin. Uh,

[00:22:19] Rob: another one. Well, they should just go and look at what was it? You can't hide 7, 7, 7, 7. So Bitcoin, Jesus and Jesus.

[00:22:27] Charlie: That's called. I call it. You called that. So

[00:22:32] Rob: let's talk, speaking to the peak and the bottom.

[00:22:34] Can we, should we, should we do that, that little. Or save that for like, which graph you're talking about. Oh, the little a game trying

[00:22:42] Charlie: to time. That's right. So, so that was one of the lessons here for, for all of us, but especially as a young person starting out, it's not about timing the market. And this was our first point of compound interest, , Einstein said.

[00:22:57] Eighth wonder of the world compound interest. So it's not about timing getting in, getting out of the market. You know, it's about putting your money in there, saving it, and then, uh, investing wisely of course, but not trying to run for the Hills when things get scary. So we've got a little game we're gonna play on, uh, for our YouTube folks here.

[00:23:16] And this is personal finance club.com. You can, uh, Google, uh, timing the stock market game. And if several leads will pop up, so here's what we're going to do to put it

[00:23:27] Rob: in the show notes.

[00:23:28] Ben: And if you get, yeah, and if you can time the market, if you can beat this, if you beat us. Yeah.

[00:23:33] Charlie: We're going to get into today.

[00:23:34] . If you can beat this game, then send it in and let us know that it's possible. So. One Ben coin, we're going to hit play. And then Ben is going to try to time the market. So what's, we don't know it's going to be 10 years of the market and it's going to go up and it's going to go down.

[00:23:50] We don't know which 10 years. Right. But Ben's going to, what's your strategy, Ben, are you going to sell high and try to sell high buy low? Cause , sometimes the market gets too high. It's overvalued and you just want to sell, right. That's right.

[00:24:00] Ben: Yeah. If it goes up too much, I'm Def I'm definitely gonna sell.

[00:24:03] Um, you know, I don't want to just sit there while

[00:24:05] Charlie: let's go. Okay. That sounds good. So then we're going to compare Benz. With a buy and hold strategy for that 10 years. So, okay. Now remember, it's going to start off. First thing you got to do is you're going to be buying right off the bat. So if you want me to sell, you got to see it pretty quick.

[00:24:21] So here we get to say pretty quick. Okay. All right. So the market is going, oh wow. It just jumped up 10% going up like crazy 40% sell, sell, sell, sell. That's right. That's pretty high. And that's scary. That's

[00:24:32] Ben: scary. Oh no, it's still going. It's going through.

[00:24:35] Charlie: Oh, tell me when

[00:24:37] Ben: should I buy?

[00:24:37] Charlie: I'll know. Bye bye.

[00:24:39] Okay, we're going back in the market then I got to go back

[00:24:41] Ben: in with you. I couldn't stand it. All right. All right. Now I'm definitely waiting. Okay. It's going down a little bit. Yeah. All right.

[00:24:47] Charlie: Sell, sell, sell. Okay. That's scary. You're right. That's very

[00:24:50] Ben: scary. All right. All right. Bye-bye bye. I'm getting it's about to, I, I have a feeling right now as soon as it's about to spike.

[00:24:57] Oh, no. Yeah. Oh no. It's. You're struggling. You're in the market. How much longer we got you're in the main cell. So am I, but yes, I sold. All right. All right, now. Bye. Bye. Yep, let's go. And I think it's about to go. It's very scary, man. Come on. I need, I need some help here. I

[00:25:16] gave

[00:25:16] Charlie: him the 200 day moving average right here.

[00:25:18] Did not use that.

[00:25:20] Ben: Oh my gosh. I didn't even realize that's what that was. Or you could have used

[00:25:24] Charlie: the. Well, I mean, I think I've looked at this graph. I'm like, man, you did terrible. I was going to try to find something positive, but you did terrible. Your investment grew from October 21st, 1996 to 2006. Hey, that was a tough time.

[00:25:39] I was looking at this skill market. I was looking at this timeframe going, goodness. That is that's like two or three years. That's the beginning of my investment Rob year two. Right? We're the same age, right? Yup. Right? Yup. That's the beginning of our investment life right there. It was terrible. Anyway. So Ben, let's see how you did from October 96, doc Tober, 2006.

[00:25:57] Your investment grew your $10,000 investment grew to $17,000 almost while a buy and hold strategy netted $22,200 or thereabouts, you lost $5,260, you know, versus the market annualized told me, oh yeah, you did terrible. The market grew 8.3% per year. Your investments Ben grew 5.4% per year because. You, uh, got a little scared sometimes and you thought the market was overvalued and I thought you were going to nail it because I was like, oh, you sold and you're going to, and the market's going down and then, but you just don't know.

[00:26:35] I

[00:26:36] Ben: think I missed the buy

[00:26:37] Charlie: side. Yeah. Anyway,

[00:26:39] Rob: it's so funny. Cause that's exactly, even though you didn't have any news, you know, news media in your ear there, or any pandemics or anything, you know, you're still obviously underperforming. So that in the mix, and that's exactly what you see for a lot of investors who don't have the discipline and

[00:26:58] Ben: well, that first couple of years it went up, so it was up by 20, 30%.

[00:27:02] And so I was like, there's no way I can keep going at that pace. And then sure enough, as soon as I sold it kept going. Yeah. Double. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:10] Charlie: Great. Okay. Well, all right. All right. Nice, nice work then tumbled me. That's

[00:27:14] Ben: humbled.

[00:27:16] Charlie: So let's shift gears a little bit because it's so important to talk about what you mentioned earlier, Rob, the, how do parents save for their children , and kids are, you know, young adults.

[00:27:25] How do they save? We've had a lot of parents lately go. I want to get my, my kids started off on the right foot. What's the best way to do it. What's the best account. And I'll okay. Do you all? Yeah.

[00:27:38] Rob: Um, I, I've got the three ways kind of that we we've talked about. Uh, here, you've got of course joint bank accounts that you can do, just like you have with your spouse, with your spouse there, you've got your custodial accounts, which is the UTMA, which we'll get into.

[00:27:55] And then you have w I kind of just, the first salvo, I guess, is the prepaid debit card. If you just want to go out, get, you know, uh, get a debit card that you just. Fun. Whenever your child runs out of money, that's one way to do it. That's probably the first option. People who don't aren't comfortable opening up a bank account or custodial account.

[00:28:17] .

[00:28:17] Yeah. Ben,

[00:28:18] Charlie: what do you think

[00:28:19] Ben: I wish I had, I'd got to do earlier and just like we showed with the compound interest is actually get to save and invest. I mean, my first, my first account was just a custodial savings account at the bank and, uh, or a joint account.

[00:28:32] And that, that was a great place to start saving, just saving my money. But I think, um, really, I would love to have gotten investing early. And like we saw on that and hold and saving for the long-term and the way to do that, I know we've talked about it, the custodial, uh, UTMA accounts, but also the, the custodial Roth IRA.

[00:28:52] Um, Charlie, I think you're actually going through that right now for, for your daughter. Yeah.

[00:28:57] Charlie: I printed out the application and had some other parents asking me about it. Cause Rob, you nailed a couple of great strategies for just savings and spending and we could even get into how to start credit for your kids.

[00:29:09] But I think that's probably easy to put off until 18 early twenties, maybe. Um, but as far as investing and saving, if you want to start that, uh, for your, for your kids, um, , I did just like what you said, Rob? I took my daughter's, uh, sounds terrible. I took her Christmas money. I mean, I, how do I say this?

[00:29:30] Uh, in fact I've got a reputation. All the family. Yeah, there we go. I helped her. I helped her. Thank you. I was, I was really struggling there because everybody in my family was like, do not give your birthday money to your dad. Okay. But my daughter did part with some birthday and Christmas money and I invested before.

[00:29:48] And a joint brokerage account. And so now what I'm going to do is I'm just going to take equivalent cash and start her a custodial Roth. . Now custodial, anything Artemis , uh, custard a Roth becomes the property of the child at the age of majority, which is either 18 or 21, depending on. So it's going to become your, your kids. So just get over that part, whereas a five to nine doesn't ever have to become the property of your child.

[00:30:13] So there's some flexibility there, but in this case, we want our kids to have this. I want my daughter to have her birthday money, Christmas money back. I'm finally going to give it back to her and, and yes, it has multiple. Thank you very much. A couple of times. We'll see. Anyway, up until September of this, put it in there yet.

[00:30:30] Anyway. Um, so I'm going to do a custodial Roth. Now here's a couple of nuts and bolts about the custodial Roth. How young can you do this Schwab, , that's who we're working with. That's up for not the application. I called them. I said, Hey, is there an age limit? You know, Nope, no age limit. Now your custodian, sorry for using the same type of language.

[00:30:47] Let me clarify that. Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, who. They are not going to be the police of your custodial Roth. They do not care how old your kid is for them. You know, as far as, especially Schwab. I know that for sure. They're not going to ask. I mean, you're going to put it on the application, but they're not the police of that.

[00:31:02] They're just going to open the custody to a custodial account. They're going to do it now. Here's the rules your, your child has to make. So that's what

[00:31:11] Rob: I was just about to say, Charlie. So I am the police on this, so

[00:31:14] yeah,

[00:31:14] Charlie: you're the police.

[00:31:15] Rob: So now your child, you're not, you're not taking any birthday money and putting it around.

[00:31:19] No, no, no, no money she's earned.

[00:31:20] Charlie: She has to earn money. So my dog, so yeah, thanks for that clarification, Rob, because what I was actually doing is, was breaking the rules. My daughter does earn money so she can contribute now to a Roth. And in anybody, any child can earn money. Here's the sticky wicket. How do I prove if I get.

[00:31:38] Does my child have to file a tax return. Do they have to get a W2? What if they're mowing grass? They're not going to get a W2. So, if they work for a restaurant, they're going to get a W2. , if they work for someone else, they might get a 10 99.

[00:31:49] If they don't then just have records of that income, create a log, you know, making notes of it, uh, show bank accounts or receipts or deposits or something, , because your child, even though they make money, they may not have to file the tax return depending on how much they make. So those are the nuts and bolts of the custodial Roth.

[00:32:08] The limit is right now, $6,000, uh, for our child, they have to make, you can put a hundred percent of their income in it, so they can only put 6,000 in it if they make 6,000. Does that make sense so far? Am I on track here? If

[00:32:23] Ben: they only make 3000, they can't put in 6,000, they can only put in, correct?

[00:32:26] Charlie: Correct. Earn income. .

[00:32:28] Awesome. Yeah. So , last thing I'll say on just savings accounts is the utmost are pretty good. Um, but I th I think depending on the tax laws and things like that, sometimes they lose some of their advanced. So, but, but they're okay. I mean, they're all right.

[00:32:43] I'm not a huge fan of personally. I'd rather do the Roth, but everybody's circumstances are a little different. So,

[00:32:49] Rob: so I've got, um, I, my personal, I'm just going to disagree with disagree there. Charlie, I'll let it out. So. Yep. I think it's important to give them the UTMA is a little bit for, you know, some clients that are maybe a little bit higher or net worth, and it's a uniform transfers to minors, act it expounds upon the UGME, which is, was a little bit older it's uniform gift to minors act where that I think was only securities.

[00:33:16] The UTMA can be money, , real estate, fine art, all of that. If the account allows it obviously, but, but that's covered under the act and. And you're deaf in your example of the birthday money. I love UTMs for that example, because that's a, that expands on the gift act, right? So if there's a gift, that's where you can put that that's a great place for a gift and a TIG to get invested in the market or whatever you want to do with it.

[00:33:42] But that's obviously what we, uh, most of the time advice for longer-term assets, you're going to invest in the market and the UTMA does that fidelity Schwab I'm sure. Almost everyone does that. So that that's kind of where we get it. To, uh, the difference between if it's earning income than a Roth IRA for the kid is great.

[00:34:01] If it's not earned income, then maybe a UTMA works for

[00:34:06] Charlie: no, that's a great point. And I like the point you made too about watching out for, if you think you might get some student aid, uh, then, then those are going to count against you. That's why the 5 29 is really a powerful cause it, it doesn't do that, but.

[00:34:20] Ben: Yeah, and you can give $15,000 a year right now without filing a gift tax return. So if you were going to give money to. Know, that's just something to keep in mind. , the UTMA I think that for the majority of states, I believe it is 21. When the, when the custodian sturdy in ship ins custodial ship ends,

[00:34:40] Rob: uh, Colorado in Tennessee, at least it is.

[00:34:42] Ben: Yeah. Yeah. So. You know when w and we've experienced this with some of our clients, as soon as they turn that age. Well, that money is theirs.

[00:34:50] Rob: That's a good point. And I think it's important. Define some of these terms. So you, if you give them money or if you're a parent and you give your kids some money, that's going to go into a UTMA. You are the donor, you can name a custodian. Usually it's the, still the parent, that's just a custodian and you have a fiduciary duty.

[00:35:08] We've talked all about fiduciaries. If you've heard any of our other podcasts, you have a fiduciary duty to your kid in that scenario. So you have to do what's best for them in managing that investment, which means you can't take any of it.

[00:35:21] Ben: That's right. You can't invest in meme stocks, right? I guess you could.

[00:35:28] Rob: And part of that UTMA though, as far as tax wise is when it does become there, let's say at 21 who is then out on their own is they're taxed on the, any kind of capital gains on that. They're, they're taxed at their rate, not on their parents.

[00:35:43] Yeah. If I'm saying that that's a good

[00:35:45] Charlie: point. Yeah. Taxes and Artemis is, is, uh, not an easy subject. It confounds me continuously.

[00:35:54] Rob: The other part, I think that's important about Roth. IRAs is all the advantages that we've talked about. Roth IRAs, and we maybe do another podcast on that. Let us know, hit me up at Robert, uh, leading edge planning.com, but the Roth IRA.

[00:36:12] Are in a retirement account. However, when you contribute money to them, you can always take that money out because you've already been taxed on it without any penalties, any fees, any taxes. So you can take a take out your contribution amount and that's an important distinction. So some people might say, oh, Roth IRA.

[00:36:30] Well, my kid's 10. He doesn't get to see that until he's 59 and a half. Well, if something happens and he needs. He can take out the mountain. He's contributed now not the part he has earned or it's made, right? Not the part that, um, is getting pounding and gains. Thank you, Ben. Not

[00:36:48] Charlie: the kids call it these days.

[00:36:52] Rob:

[00:36:52] Yeah. Not the gaze. You, if you take out the games, then you're penalized and taxed on the gain. So anyways, I think that's a great thing that a lot of people don't understand is, oh, well, they can actually, they need to buy a car or whatever they can access.

[00:37:05] Yeah. That was contributed now, is that, why is that? May not be wise,

[00:37:09] Charlie: but they could do it. It's like an emergency emergency fund emergency, super remote. And

[00:37:15] Ben: don't buy a new car. Yeah, there we go. Don't

[00:37:18] Charlie: bind, you know, we're coming upon the baby coming up on the end here, but what, what final thoughts?

[00:37:22] You know, Ben, you've got some techniques as a young, young guy, young, newer investor. You've got something you're passionate about. I think you were talking about you'd liked about new cars or something.

[00:37:32] Ben: Oh man. Yeah. I love buying. Uh, I see these fancy, , Mercedes and I'm actually, I'm more of a truck guy, we were admiring a nice Dodge truck the other day.

[00:37:42] Man, I need that. Oh, it's $120,000. Nevermind, but no bug. Yeah. Oh yeah. The T-Rex yeah, the thing is awesome. I'm sure it's always been this way, but we see, we, we see social media that we see our friends with w you know, maybe nice cars we see are, are the people that we look up to with nice cars.

[00:38:01] Um, and we, it's really easy to fall into the trap of obviously wanting that, um, you know, you go to a dealership to get a new car, and they're going to talk you into, instead of maybe buying this used car one. Pay monthly and you can get this nice new car and, uh, and take out a loan for it. And so I would just say, you know, it's not always the best idea just to go and buy a new car.

[00:38:22] It is a, it is a wealth killer. Is that what we put on the sheet there? Charlie? But so, so that's one of the things, you know, don't fall into that temptation. Don't feel like you need to keep up with anybody. Um, number two, I would say is, um, you know, I'm, I'm currently renting property instead of, uh, I don't, I don't own a home right now and I think that's perfectly fine.

[00:38:42] Um, if you look at, if you look at some of the math, we can get into it, the pros and cons, but, um, don't feel like you need to go and just buy a house, right. When you graduate or right as your, uh, your, you know, your, your. You're out in the workforce. Um, you know, there that you may not, it may not actually be, uh, be thrown away money renting, which we hear a lot.

[00:39:02] And then the last one I know we talked about automating your, um, your savings. When you're setting a budget, just take 10, 20, 30 minutes to set a budget you don't have to stick to it, you know, by the penny, by penny, but make sure you have at least a savings goal , you can do it on an app. You can do it right now. Take out your phone and set a savings. I have a transfer and money into my savings account. Every, every few days it just transfers money into the. That has helped me tremendously with saving. I don't like to look at my, my account statements very often.

[00:39:31] I don't like to look at what I'm spending my money on, which is not, not necessarily a great thing, but I have a budget budgeted out where I know I'm meeting my savings. And I'm able to, um, to, you know, buy the things that I need, um, by doing that. So that has been really helpful to me. Those are the things that I'm passionate about.

[00:39:48] Charlie: I love it. Well, put you get off my pedestal. Drop the mic box. Yeah. Oh, total drop. That that's expensive. Rob, what do you got, man?

[00:40:00] Rob: That's all I got really? He nailed it. We've talked. Uh, we talked quite a bit. They did talk to mentality the use of money, tangible. The savings or automation, the three different ways to joint custodial and prepaid debit card that mothers, and obviously Roth IRAs.

[00:40:16] Charlie, what do you got anything to wrap it up? Oh boy,

[00:40:18] Charlie: this is a good one. I just love what Ben said, you know, set goals that are important to you. Not somebody else. We see so many people with this FOMO, right. And they're missing out. They feel like they're missing out, but it's like take the time as a young person to go.

[00:40:33] What do I want? And go after that. If you don't ever do that, then you're going to be constantly trying to meet a goal or benchmark that's moving on. You constantly and you will drive yourself crazy. I hope that makes sense to people, a lot of people say, it's know your values. That's a little bit vague and maybe, uh, a platitude of sorts, but know what's important to you and then write it down.

[00:40:59] And then set those goals because it's the L keeping up with the Joneses and we just see so many people through the whole life chasing this unattainable money goal. And then sometimes they get it and guess what? They're disappointed because it wasn't what they really wanted all along.

[00:41:17] So know what you want, know what's important to you and go through. That's it.

[00:41:21] Ben: I've just, I've just, I love that. That that's such a good point. He made me think of one more, one more thing that I find important right now. Um, we're in Tennessee just recently, uh, passed the, uh, the sports gambling act. I don't know what it's called, but you can now gamble on sports.

[00:41:38] And it's very tempting. If you can do it through an app on your phone and it tells you that it has pretty, uh, you know, graphics and everything that pop up when you win and they say you can win tons of money. And, um, you know, every day they say, they say, Um, and I think it's the same with some of the Robin hood stuff that you see on commercials.

[00:42:00] Um, I was seeing, I saw a Coinbase commercial the other day, and it's like, you know, you go and buy doge coin. It was literally a thing about dose going and how it was started as a joke, but you can go and invest in it and coordinate. So I would just say stick to the, you know, have your, have your long-term money that you're saving and don't, don't try and gamble it away on literally gambling or, um, these meme stocks trying to try to win it all on, uh, you know, following people on Reddit or in these Twitter groups or whatever it is.

[00:42:29] Um, you know, that will cause more stress in the long run. Most likely you're going to lose money. You're not going to be able to beat the market. We just, I'm, I'm an expert investor, as we all know. And I, I just lost to the game. So, I mean, right there, you can't beat the market. Um, no, but, um, I really think like as a young person, especially creating those habits and not falling into this trap of trying to, um, gamble your money away and really invest in investing is not gambling and, and really learning about that and sticking to that.

[00:42:59] I

[00:42:59] Rob: love it. Nice. That's it. All right. I've got the two quotes to wrap it up. We're not a fan of everything Dave Ramsey says, but this one I am. You've got to tell your money what to do, or it will leave. They Ramsay. If we command our wealth, we shall be rich and free. If our wealth commands us, we are poor indeed.

[00:43:17] By Edmund Burke, we've arrived at our final destination. Let us be the first to welcome you to the end of flight eight. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast. If you liked what you heard, please hit that subscribe button and leave a review so we can reach more people. If you have any questions or you'd like to, uh, anything answered on the show, she does email info@leadingedgeplanning.com or robert@leadingedgeplanning.com.

[00:43:42] And as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who don't know where they are going. So plan accordingly. Thanks for listening. Take care.

[00:43:52] Voice Actor: Thank you for listening to the pilot money guys podcast. It has been our pleasure to share some information with you today. Give us a call to discuss absolutely any investment question. You may have click on the subscribe button below to be notified when new episodes become available. Visit leading edge planning.com to learn more.

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Pilot Money Guys

Flight #15: Changing Your Domicile to Avoid State Taxes

Pilot Money Guys:

Changing Your Domicile to Avoid State Taxes!

Your domicile is defined as your permanent home where you pay your state income taxes.
 
For most people, your domicile is straightforward, however, for those with multiple residences domicile can be hard to establish. And maybe even a little tempting to lean toward the lower tax state. Our goal in this podcast is to help you understand how to have multiple homes and stay out of trouble with Uncle Sam!
 
Furthermore, the IRS says your domicile is based on your intent, which can be tricky to prove. A famous example is from a New York corporate executive moving to Texas. Even after getting a Texas driver's license and registering to vote there, the New York Division of Tax Appeals performed an audit and found the man to be liable for thousands of dollars in New York state income taxes. The man had to use the veterinary records of his dog in Texas to prove that he was intending to stay in Texas for the long haul!
 

Thank you for listening! If you’d like to have a conversation with us about tax domicile questions you may have, please email info@leadingedgeplanning.com or call 865-240-2292.

www.LeadingEdgePlanning.com

 

CHANGING DOMICILE CHECKLIST:
 

 

 

 

Podcast Transcription:

Rob: tip of the cap to you.

Welcome to the pilot money guys, podcast flight 15 already today. We're going to be talking about changing domiciles, changing where you live, and I'm your host. Rob Eklund, a wealth manager, financial planner, whatever you want to call. And with me, we kicked off Charlie. He's not, the godfather is not with us today.

Instead we have the professor CPA and certified financial planner. Kevin Gormley. Welcome Kevin. Yes. Thank

Kevin: you so much. It's great to be back. Oh, great. To be back. It's good

Rob: to have you here. The fans wanted more Kevin. They did. And of course we have the wonder boy, Ben Dickinson. Wonder man. You're a man cow bell.

What? I'm the cowbell? You're a man of many faces. That's for sure. That's true. Welcome. We're going to kick it off here with the little aviation news. Kevin, you were just talking about some movies. What do you got on the movie front for AVS?

Kevin: Yeah. So I'm a big movie fan and I was one of the people that did like top gun, so please don't judge me.

But so I was excited that the new movie was coming out. It's been delayed again until may of 2022. So say it. You can watch those trailers over and over again, but it's just not the same, but also two other things I learned is that jackass forever has also been delayed until the February of 22 and a mission impossible seven has been moved to September of next year.

Now the only other fun fact I'll tell you about jackass is I actually came across an article and those guys have spent like $38 million in medical costs. Oh,

Rob: are you serious? Yeah.

Kevin: Those people abused themselves, get paid for it. But they also have to pay all those medical bills. So anyway, wow.

That was just something that was Johnny Knox is from Knoxville

Rob: that's a Tennessee thing. Ben, were you ever thinking about. Oh, yeah.

Ben: W there's some videos out there of me and my friends doing some of our own our own stunts but I think one broken arm, then it really made a stop stop worrying about it.

And that's actually true. That's true, but that that's the other day, but but yeah I, my guess is why this is delayed is probably goes back to the Suez canal being blocked. That's my theories on supply

Rob: chain, hurricane Ida. Ranch and everything. Yeah. Excellent. Aviation wise, we got a pilot shortage that has been around and we knew it.

We'd known it's been coming for quite a while. And now they're just talking about, Hey, we just have 5,000 pilots taking early out from the airlines because of COVID. They, the companies were in dire straits. They offered pilots to get out a little early and 5,000 of us took it to include the gods.

Charlie and now, with air travel ramping back up and getting back to 2000, 19 levels or close to, we'll see what happens with the Delta Varian obviously. But, we have a bigger shortage now because 5,000 of us are gone. So it's interesting. No new shortage, new, old shortage here.

Ben: Yeah.

Yeah. That'd be interesting. A lot of they'll have to be bringing us some young folks in there,

Rob: training them up.

Kevin: Doing so Rob, let me ask you what, how much does it cost to become a pilot today and what are the different ways to become a pilot? That's because sometimes people will ask me.

Yeah, that sounds like a good good life, which it's not always, but it is hard to get into.

Rob: Yeah, no, that's a great question, Kevin. And it's a moving target back when I, way back when and the 2000 timeframe, when I got in, obviously I went to the military, so they paid. But then that's a significant cost buried by the by the taxpayers there.

As far as the commercial side of things, you bear a lot of the costs. You have to really, you're betting on yourself for a lot of years there and, you pay for all the training teacher ratings, your instrument ratings and whatnot. And then you have to accrue time and hopefully get hired by somebody to do that.

So they're paying for the gas and the plane. As you're accruing time once you've got the ratings, but the ratings are substantial now, though you've got a situation where airlines are seeing the shortage so that they've gone out and done different programs. So they're starting to take guys off the street and gals off the street and teach them right from the get go and start with some of the costs there.

They're providing the cost upfront for those pilots. So they're covering some of that. There's still a heavy burden, I think, on the individual. And you've got to bet on yourself for a long time before it pays off before you get to a major. For sure. So does that answer your question, Kevin?

Kevin: Yes, it does. And I think that's the interesting part to me is are there programs that are out there that if somebody wants to do it, that a company could take an equity position in that individual and say, we're gonna, we're gonna help pay for it.

Training and then you have to, give us three or four years or whatever the case may be.

Rob: Yeah. And it used to be that the military, I think, was producing more pots than in a, maybe the military has to ramp up their pilot production if you will. But I think right now with a lot of UAVs and unmanned aircraft out there, it's not going to be as organic as it used to be as not as seamless as hail was finding the KC 10 and.

Just move right over the airlines. So it'll be interesting how this all shakes out, but there'll definitely be different programs coming out. United has got one. I know Southwest has some things in the works and I'm sure Delta and American do as well. So we'll have to cover that on a different episode.

Maybe like what exactly are the avenues that the majors are looking at to bring guys on.

Ben: Yeah. And if you're a new pilot check out our last series, because we got some good info on some benefits stuff especially for some younger folks or people getting into it, because there's a a lot of nuances I've learned from

Rob: you all.

Absolutely. And then once you get to the majors you're gonna probably have enough money. You might have to give us a call. So that's true. That leads right perfectly into our next set. Which is exciting stuff. We're going to be talking about changing domiciles, which military folks, airline pilots, everyone deals with at some point in their lives, usually.

And but before that, this podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning, we're fiduciary fee, only advisors who strive to do what's right for you. What keeps you up at night? What questions do you have about retirement savings? Life insurance policies. Long-term care options. State planning or why we call Ben Kalba give us a jingle

it's up to you to get these facets of your life in order or not. If you decide to get a handle on these issues, we can help. Okay. Now for that, let's kick it off with domiciled change, Kevin, over to you.

Kevin: Yeah. First of all, as the Eagles wrote in the song hotel, California, you can check out any time, but you can never leave.

And that's a good quote to discuss the fact that when you move from one state to another or even when you're working in multiple states states love to get tax money from. And even though you've checked out of a state and you think you're gone, they may not think you're gone and they will track you and and they have the power to tax you.

That's really what this is all about. And this has come about for me, Rob, because a number of clients have said, Hey, I'm moving out of one of the high tax states, California. Illinois New Jersey, New York, and one of the things I need to be cognizant of as I moved to the promised land, which there are nine states out there that are a part of what I would call the tax promised land, the sunshine states, including Florida Texas, Tennessee.

And then there's a Alaska Rob, which you grew up in Nevada, South Dakota. Washington, Wyoming, and then New Hampshire up there on the east coast. So these are all no tax states. And so people can get really excited even to retire to one of these states and what we're finding, what we see online all the time is that even though you've checked out of a state and you've left the state continues to tax you and then you have to fight it.

And so that's really what this is all about.

Rob: That's tough too, Kevin. Cause if you get in a situation, as we're doing some of the readings here for the show prep, some of the states, can, you move from one state, they taxed you and you moved to the new state and they can tax you.

And it's not exactly clear. Who's going to win that battle. And I guess the federal government, in some cases, won't even step in and say, okay, you're going to, or the court system will step in and say, okay, California, you got the tax. Whoever Colorado, you got the taxes. Which was very interesting to me.

I thought that at some point, they'd say, okay, you're not going to be double taxed, but it's it's a tough situation. So what do you want to do in that case, Kevin, to make sure you're not getting double taxed. I might be getting ahead of myself.

Kevin: No, I think that's a good place to start. And there was a Supreme court case a few years ago where taxpayer said, Hey, this is not fair.

And the Supreme court voted, I think it was. I think it was five to four. I don't know how many circles Supreme court justices there are, but anyway, it was a okay good. There was a very narrow victory in favor of the taxpayer that you can not be taxed by more than one state. And so I've heard people say to me before, Hey, I can't be taxed by two states.

That's true, but you still have to file two tax returns and take a credit. And it costs money to file tax returns. That's not fun. And also if you brush up against one of the high tax states, Rob, let's say that you end up paying tax in California and you get a credit for Tennessee.

Guess what, there is no income tax in Tennessee. So that's really where the devil's in the details with this. And it's just something you want to be cognizant of. Now, I will say as well, that we've, since we live in Tennessee Ben and I we've had people that have been Tennessee clients who have moved to other states.

Such as Colorado. And that tax is not the only reason to leave a state obviously. But when people leave Tennessee, they say, what do I need to do? And I said not really much because the new state is going to be happy to have you and Tennessee doesn't get any income tax anyway.

So they're not going to be fighting over you. So that's one of the dynamics that, that happens.

Rob: Yeah. And like you mentioned, Hotel California lyrics, California is one of those states that has obviously high tax, New York, probably New Jersey, those types of states. They're going to want to hold on to you as much as they can.

Kevin: That's a, that's one of the most fascinating things in my reading is that, in California, you could have a domicile. And the word that we're going to get into in a second is domiciled versus. But if you're a domicile in California, that is, you have a place there, you return there and you don't live in the state of California even one day of the year and you work in another state and you live in another state.

You, you're actually physically out of the state, California will still tax you and they have a right to tax. And you will pay California tax or you can, fight them for years. So these rules are very complicated and convoluted but it can be a very painful experience in California and New York.

Ben and I were talking about this earlier when there's a lot of money on the line, they're obviously going to hire a lot of people to come out.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah, there's a bigger reward on the end of that that battle and Kevin, you were telling me it's the burden of proof is on the taxpayer.

These states will come after you, like you're guilty and you have to prove otherwise. And we'll get into later, maybe more details on some of the things to avoid doing that. But I just thought that was really crazy that they actually basically can say, you're, we're taking this money and good luck telling us otherwise,

Rob: pretty much I've heard, I heard one.

One Pandit was talking about states being like pit bull. He compared to the states to pit bulls and they just don't want to let go. And you gotta practice.

Kevin: I think that's, I think that's great, Rob, and yeah innocent until proven guilty does not apply. And, like one person recently said that's not fair.

And I said, no, it's not fair, but fairness. Doesn't have anything to do with it because taxing authorities have the ability to garnish wages and, if they rule in favor of their state and you lose the case, guess what. You're either going to have to pay or maybe flee the country and, fleeing the country.

I don't think there's a good financial strategy although some do.

Ben: Yeah, that's true. But I think they still, Hey California in New York, they may still come after you never.

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: Ben, that's a, that's an excellent point. And so I got into the idea of, ex-pat and I followed some people on podcasts and YouTube.

And so one of the things I learned as an ex-pat, if you want to be an ex-pat and you live in California, is that you absolutely need to not just move to the foreign country. You need to move somewhere else. First, you actually need to change your domicile because there's people that are over in Costa Rica.

Europe and other places that California is still taxing them because the person moved directly from California to these other states and California argues that when you come back to the country, you're coming back to us. And so a lot of ex-pats I've said you actually have to move to a state like Texas establish established domicile, which I think we're ready to get into what domicile is, but established domiciles and then move overseas or California will continue to reach out to you across the world.

Rob: I love it. Love it. Let's get into it. What's what is the domiciles?

Kevin: I'm gonna, I'm going to try to explain this and then help me. You've done a lot of research on this as well, but domiciles, you really only have one domicile. So domiciles is the state, which you live and expect to return to, and that expect to return to that's intent, right?

And intent. Is very hard to know like what's your intention, Rob? I don't know your intention, . But I can, if I'm a taxing authority, I can tell you what I think your intention is. And that's where we come back to. You need to prove your intention. So at domiciles, you really only have one domicile.

That's the place that you. That you are, and you expect to return to, whereas you may have multiple residents what do we call someone with multiple residents, Rob,

Rob: a rich person. Snowbird

Kevin: or a snowbird? Yeah. Yeah. Snowbird is good. So yeah, if you have multiple residences there's let me find the verbiage here.

There's something that states will do, and they will try to say that you are a statutory, and they in any state in which an individual has a residence has a right to tax individuals, worldwide income. I always love that worldwide income. That sounds like you're making money all over the world.

But if you are in a state for a certain period of time and every state has their own rules, They can try to say that you are a statutory resident and they can say that your domicile is in their state. So although there's only one Dom domiciles more than one state can say you have a dominant style in their state and start tackling.

Domiciles is one thing. Residents, you may have multiple residents, but again, the issue is that multiple states will say that your domicile is in their state, then help me.

Ben: One, one thing that I was reading is that it basically, it does change to the definition of what domiciles is from different states.

And so maybe that's why California has maybe more strict rules, but I've got here two concepts that these states generally agree on. And the first one is that a domicile is a person's fixed permanent and principle home that they reside in. And then there's number two that they intend to return to or remain.

 I guess if you intend to be there for long term, and you also have a home there that you live in, even if you have multiple residences they can still say you intend to return back to this. So this is your home.

Rob: I think it's important for folks that are thinking about changing their domicile or moving that they think, there's some things that they can do.

To help make sure that their domiciles established in that new state, right? Yep. Yep. Absolutely. If you sell a house, if you move from, for our airline pilots who move from Oakland to Denver or Oakland to Dallas or wherever, if you're moving from California or wherever you sell the house that you have there, and you buy a new one, that's obviously going to go a long way towards establishing your domicile.

It gets a little trickier. If you keep that. And you have a house in Colorado and in, in California, then that's where it gets a little tougher, but they get, I even heard one example where a guy moving from New Jersey to Texas, he was a big hedge fund guy. And he, I think he had $400 million of income that year in a huge tax bill.

And New Jersey obviously didn't want that. And the judge. I think if if I heard this correctly, the judge actually used where his pet was, where his dog was to establish what was his domicile. It went that far as the, his intent was established because his pet was intact.

Ben: Yep. Yeah. Moving is not just enough.

We've we've seen and learned that you've got to, you've got to basically prove that you're in it for the long haul, many different ways. And we have a pretty robust checklist that we we got that it goes through kind of some of those things that you should go into.

And it's pretty funny how many different things they, they talk about in here? Are we ready to maybe jump in. I think so, guys. Perfect. All right. Let me let me pull this up because I think it's worth showing if you're on the, if you're on the YouTube check this out, but if not, you can check out our website.

We'll post this on here, but first of all, it talks about taking residents. Obviously owning a place in a different state and having your physical presence. So this is a, having six. At least six months in a day or the majority of your time in that new state. So if you do keep

Kevin: 183 days spend

Rob: 183

Ben: days, magic number was 365 divided by two plus one.

Perfect. Yeah, file for tax benefits. There's a, I guess you can declare that this is my domicile. I didn't know about that one. Do you any idea what that is? Is that some type of fancy form.

Kevin: No I don't have any idea. The big D I'm trying to figure out ways to remember that domicile is really the key.

It's not just residents. Declaration of domicile, that really sounds that your intent is to be in a new place. So I would definitely do that.

Ben: Yep. Yep. And like you said, it is the intent, that seems to be what really matters, but maybe it's like in the office where you just say, I declare domicidal Michael Scott, but yeah, I think maybe that's what that is.

I don't know.

Kevin: Michael Scott. Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, but this goes into things, things that you may not think about, your voter's registration, if you have a, if you're trying to establish residency in Texas, but, and you also have a home in California and you're registered to vote in California, it's not, that's not gonna fly just because you have that home.

Even if you, even, if you lived in Texas for the majority of the time, , you gotta have all of these little things in place. Your estate planning documents is a big one. Make sure that those are changed with the new addresses. Insurance a big, that's another big one that, that this goes into detail on your banking accounts your checks, making sure the checks, there's little things like that.

And this is all just building that evidence to prove that your intent is to not only just be there, but be there for the longterm and stay there and be able to prove that,

Rob: That, that estate planning one is huge too, because different, obviously the death taxes that we talked about in a previous episode, Go back and look at that.

And our I'm dead now. What series? That's great. Great series, I think. Yes. And

Kevin: No. Ben, let me make a comment here with all of this. Because people will say it's very obvious. I. Okay. It's very obvious. And I've heard that quite a bit. The problem is not that some of the people we're working with are not actually leaving a state.

The problem is there, there are some people, just a few, maybe in New York that will buy second homes elsewhere. And of course, where do you want to be domiciled? You want to be domiciled in the low tax state. And these auditors, again, we always think of these auditors as either. Devious not good people, but they are dealing with some people that actually are skirting tax loss.

So I think that's always something to remember. So they are going to look for ways to, to nail you. And this is the good get caught up in the bad sometimes. And the thing that I really like is that pilot pilots, like checking. And here's the cool thing where you can actually use your check, not a checklist knowledge to to just make sure you do all of these checklists

Rob: discipline.

Kevin: Yes. That's it?

Ben: Yeah. We'll give some access to this. . This goes as far as saying, even your memberships, join a club, just join a club in your new state charitable giving the chair give to charities in your state.

So this really goes into to a lot of detail. I won't go through all of it here, but it really goes through all the different details and it shows just to the extent of how you have to prove that you intend to not only live there but stay there and be there for the long haul.

And, yeah, it's not just about being there.

Kevin: Yeah. So what you just said is not just about 183 days. New York, actually, I saw some statistics online. They when greater than 50% of the cases against people, so greater than 50% of the time they win, they also have five years on average that these audits last, or I shouldn't say on average up to five years, these audits will.

So this is not just about money. It's also about annoyance and frustration and all these other issues. So one of the things that I think is extremely important is for you to is for you to have a a divorce date or a date that you are gonna be actually have left the state and come to a new state.

So picking a date of divorce and that's actually what they say in a number of the articles is that you need to treat the state like. Where you severed everything. So I even think, like people will say I'm going to buy another house in Tennessee. I've heard this recently and I'm going to move to Tennessee, but I'm going to keep my old place in my other state.

Again, it's very easy for that state to argue that's a second home in Tennessee or Florida or wherever. So I actually think selling your old home, although you don't have to do that, selling your old home might actually be a good one. Selling all real estate and then some of the other gotchas, you mentioned the dog, Rob social media is a very powerful tool when you're standing next to a New York building with your dog.

 And all your friends and you just got out of the cigar bar or whatever. And the auditor shows you a picture of yourself from your Facebook page. They are going to use cell phone records. They're going to use social media. So again just be careful with that. And if you really have left the area, you, and I would say that she shouldn't have problems, but multiple states right now,

Rob: Yeah.

And that's a a key point too. When you talk about, if you're there in the social media aspect, a state, I believe most states treat you as being there. If you're there for one second of the day. So for the pilots that bounce around, have their own airplanes and bounce around. If you're there for one second, you could be considered.

That could be one. 183 days as far as they're concerned. And so if you have credit card receipts and that kind of thing from that state, that's gonna be used against you for that. Potentially if you are an airline pilot, maybe using cash again, not trying to skirt the rules, but just making sure you've established that domiciled correctly.

Ben: Yeah, I wish it was as easy as, you could live in California and buy just like a apartment Tennessee and say that's where you live, but it's just. Yeah, they've got to figure it out and they know that people do that. And so they're looking out for people doing that and that's why it's, they've made it very difficult for you to do stuff like that.

So definitely something to be aware of when you're trying to trick them tricked system,

Rob: And I've heard there's now, with the social media and all the apps that are out there, that there are apps out there that you can actually buy to help you establish that you were in a state. For a certain amount of time.

So some, sometimes the states will be like you said you were there 185 days. We don't believe you, but there are apps, one it's called tax bird. It tracks your GPS location. And you can use that as, Hey, I was in this state for 190 days or whatever you were. Very interesting. Kind of mind blowing to me.

Yeah. That is

Kevin: As long as your app says that you've moved around a little bit and you didn't stay in one location for 183 days straight, Rob that is something that I read is that people have lost, caught court cases because they left their app and their phone. At one location and we're traveling all over the place.

Rob: So

Ben: God, it's amazing what these people people are doing. They're trying everything, but making it more difficult for those that are maybe if you're trying to do it the right way too. So

Kevin: for sure final thing I have Rob concerning. This whole issue is. I will tell you there's a, and you might not know this Rob there's 50 states in the U S and there's 50 different and there's 50 different taxing authorities and there's 50 different set of rules.

And even as a tax person when we have to look at different states it's even challenging for us. So you have to know the rules of an individual state and never asked soon. That, what the rules are going to be because they do change.

And sometimes like the 183 days, that's not the rule. So maybe seeking some, somebody that, that knows interstate tax and all the rules around tax in this case, I really think it's money well spent because if you wait until tax time and you've already been hit on the radar it might be too late.

Rob: Yeah. That's a good point. And if you're married, And you leave your, you may be moving to a new state and you leave your wife behind to fix things up or whatever. But of course the state's going to try the higher tax state is going to try to use that is, Hey, you're not really leaving you after wife here for crying out loud.

You didn't move. So just something to think about

Kevin: everybody laughs at that. Sorry.

Rob: Awesome. Awesome guys. We've got anything else?

Ben: I th I think this is this is good. We don't want to bore anybody too much about this stuff,

Rob: but yeah. Yeah. Something to think about for sure. Check out the checklist.

That'll be in the show notes, the link for sure. Leading edge planning.com. You can find it there as well. And that's it. We have reached our final destination on this special domiciles changing episode with the professor and Mr. Kelly. Thanks for joining us. I'll leave you with a couple of quotes by Robert Scheller famous.

Robert Schiller, the ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence. Think about that for a second. It amazes me. And the second one, it amazes me how people are often more willing to act based on little or no data than to use data. That is a challenge to assemble Robert Shiller brainiac.

That's it. That's all I've got. If you like what you heard, hit the subscribe button and let us know what you think by emailing me, robert@leadingedgeplanning.com or info@leadingedgeplanning.com. Give us good compliments bad suggestions, whatever you want to say to us, we're willing to hear you and make the show better.

So that's what we're here for. Remember, as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who know where they're going. So make so plan accordingly. We're out of here. Thanks Kevin. Thanks Ben.

 

Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 09/07/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.

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Pilot Money Guys

Can I Get Rich With Options Trading?

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You are on a trip and your fellow pilot says they have a new investment strategy that’s getting amazing returns. You are skeptical at first, but after talking about it for the next five hours on the way to LaGuardia you become convinced you must be missing out.

We hear these stories often; we even experience it ourselves! That’s why we are starting a new podcast segment where we discuss some hot topics circulating the pilot lounges, crew vans, and cockpits. We are calling these episodes the Pilot’s Crew Lounge!

In this episode, we are taking on the hot topic of Options Trading. We’ve had a few pilots come to us with questions about Option Trading after hearing about them on trips. We are here to address these questions and give our thoughts!

Are you missing out by not using options? In this podcast we discuss our Top Five Considerations Before Trading Options.

If you have questions, comments, or topics that you would like us to cover, send them to us at info@leadingedgeplanning.com.

Get your peace of mind back this summer with a comprehensive financial plan! Give us a call at 865-240-2292!

Flight #9: Can I Get Rich Options Trading?


[00:00:30] Rob: [00:00:30] A tip of the cap to you.

Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys, podcast. Welcome to the
special edition that we're calling the pilot lounge during these flights or episodes. If you will,
we will talk about the questions we've heard around the system in the pilot lounges. And of
course, I'm your host, Rob Eklund.

[00:00:48] We've got the flight crew today. We've got the godfather certified financial
planner. Charlie Mattingly. Sir.

[00:00:55] Charlie: [00:00:55] Yes, sir. Here, president of for

[00:00:58] Rob: [00:00:58] perfect and [00:01:00] advisor, Mr. Cal bell V Ben Dickinson.
Welcome Ben.

[00:01:04] Ben: [00:01:04] I wish you still have that cowboy cowbell. Oh, the ringtone.

[00:01:07] Rob: [00:01:07] Yeah, but that's

[00:01:09] Ben: [00:01:09] all right. That's

[00:01:09] Rob: [00:01:09] all right.
[00:01:10] Without that certain special occasions, although it is the pilot lounge, so we will
have to get to it.

[00:01:16]Ben: [00:01:16] We might add it in post

[00:01:17] Rob: [00:01:17] production. Do you hear that? If you didn't bend was lazy. Okay.
Exactly. All right. Let's jump into some aviation news. Charlie, we're talking a little history.
What do you got?

[00:01:29] Charlie: [00:01:29] Yeah, so we decided to take the aviation news segment. And
and go historical we were talking before we came on you all about Pardo's push. I said, have
you all heard of Pardo's push? I remember talking about this. We used to do aviation or
excuse me, military history, every Friday night at the squatters, it was cool to go on or some
of our some of our warriors that went before us.

[00:01:48] So Pardo's push is very fascinating. It was I'll just tell the story real quick. Captain

Bob Pardot and wingman captain Earl Amman, I think is how you say that. Eighth tactical fighter wing [00:02:00] out of Thai air force base back in Vietnam, March, 1967, trying to tack a steel mill north Vietnam, just north of Hanoi.

[00:02:08]Both fr Phantoms were hit by anti-aircraft fire. Amman's plane took the worst
damage. His fuel tank had been hit and he quickly lost most of the fuel. So Amman
determined that they did not have enough fuel to make it to the tanker, the KC 1 35 tanker
over Laos. So the options are basically little bailout over hostile territory.

[00:02:28] So Pardot said, Hey, I'm going to push you. I'm going to push you to friendly
territory. So Pardot tried pushing the airplane. Now he's pushing his F for another F four
with his F four 80. So he tried using the drag shoot. Couldn't do that. Basically a mom put his tail hook down and then Pardot put the tail hook on his windscreen.

[00:02:49] And he pushed him that way. So basically then Amman shut down both engines and Pardot began pushing him now, in [00:03:00] reality, he's just minimizing the descent so he can push him far enough into friendly territory. It kinda did the trick basically then. So it gets more interesting.

[00:03:08] First of all, the tail hook would not stay in position for longer than about 15 to 20
seconds. So we had to reposition. Do it again, put the tail, look on his windscreen and push
some more just to reduce that descent, which is pretty incredible. And if you know the
physics of the it's, they call it the rhino or the flying tank, because it is a huge fuselage, huge
body of the airplane.

[00:03:29] And then these tanks, excuse me, the wings that go out are very thin they're not
big for the airplane. So the. So the glide ratio is not good, right? So they're doing some work
there. So he's repositioning every 15, 30 seconds to push the tail hook, to get them to
friendly territory. But Pardot was also struggling with fire and one of his own engines and eventually had to shut it down.

[00:03:50] So in the remaining 10 minutes part, I'll use the last engine to slow the descent of both airplanes. So it was pretty incredible. So they're flying [00:04:00] two airplanes are descending slowly on one engine

[00:04:02] Rob: [00:04:02] in between both of them. Most of the time they have four
between them. Yeah, exactly. So

[00:04:07] Charlie: [00:04:07] Pardot is playing running out of fuel after pushing a Mons plane almost 88 miles.

[00:04:11] Again that's really incredible considering where he would have been, had he not had somebody pushing him, he would have who glided a little bit, but not that much.

So the planes reached a friendly airspace at an altitude of 6,000 feet and left them about two
minutes of flying time where they ejected evaded capture and were picked up by rescue
helicopters.

[00:04:31] So incredible story.

[00:04:32]Rob: [00:04:32] It, we talked about a little bit Charlie, but yeah, it was funny. It was part, it was reprimanded for not saying his own aircraft, but then yeah. Military re-examined and said, oh, actually you deserve the silver star for saving both your butts on.

Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:04:47] As a credible. And they both retired at the prestigious rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
Yeah. That's a big rank. I'm a. That's the team in 20 days. Nice.

[00:04:58] Charlie: [00:04:58] Congratulations,

[00:05:00] [00:04:59] Rob: [00:04:59] man. Thank you. Thank you. July 4th is my retirement date. Oh, nice. So you're going to expect presence from Uben for sure. July

[00:05:09] Charlie: [00:05:09] 4th, you'll be retiring as a Lieutenant, as a reserve, as a
Lieutenant Colonel reservist, correct?

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:17] Ben: [00:05:17] Robbie better sill better. She'll be on your game. You're still notthere yet. Can tell him those chickens.

[00:05:24] Rob: [00:05:24] Yeah, good point.

[00:05:27] Ben: [00:05:27] Good point. They're watching. I'm watching you like a Hawk.
Anything. I see.

[00:05:33] Rob: [00:05:33] Good call. All right. Thanks Charlotte. That's good. Any other aviation news you guys want to talk about?

[00:05:42] Ben: [00:05:42] Man. There's not much. It's been boring out there. I want some
more elevation. Come on. I'll just lines.

[00:05:47] Rob: [00:05:47] Give it to us. The Southwest boring is good. Boring is good.
Southwest is buying 30 plus max seven aircraft. So it's 7 37, 700. They're buying more of

[00:06:00] those. I think it would have over 60 next year.

[00:06:02] So that's good news, but a little bit other news, we got the electronic vertical
takeoff and landing system, apparently American and Virgin at least are buying some of these IE Vittol electronic, vertical takeoff and landing aircraft that will be coming out at some point. So that'll be interesting to see how that develops.

[00:06:23] So we talked supersonic last week and now we've got V. Wow. Heck yeah. Apple
is crazy world. Crazy world. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any any

[00:06:32] Charlie: [00:06:32] talk at Southwest about different non Boeing airplanes?

[00:06:37] Rob: [00:06:37] Not that I've heard. Cause

[00:06:39]Charlie: [00:06:39] That was a big, hot topic about a year ago. Yeah. Have you
talked to Gary about that?

[00:06:43] Gary talks about it. Yeah. Because that's, this time last year I was like, holy cow,
you have one type of airplane. We know it. Wasn't this time last year. It was two years ago
when we had the max issues. So yeah, one type of airplane and they're having trouble.

[00:07:00] So that was difficult.

[00:07:02] Rob: [00:07:02] Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:07:04] I think right now we're they're focused on that, that max seven and what that's
going to do, there is rumors who knows what they're true or not of maybe some eat tops
out of Denver. I don't know. Woo. Nice. That'd be interesting.

[00:07:17] Charlie: [00:07:17] Don't forget about the Dreamliner rumors there at Southwest.

[00:07:20] I'm starting through dream liners coming to Southwest fall 20, 22.

[00:07:26] Rob: [00:07:26] Your words not mine.

[00:07:30] Excellent. All right. That's all we have for aviation news. Quick commercial here,
summers here, planes are full. Things are hopping while you enjoy the sun and fun. Or
overtime flying, whatever. Nice. Let us make sure your retirement plan is on track. Give us a
call or shoot us an email to discuss your financial needs.

[00:07:48] We are fiduciary fee only advisors, and you can reach us at 8 6 5 2 4 0 2 2 9 2 or
good old electronic mail. Do you know what that is? [00:08:00] Even electronic mail.

[00:08:03] Charlie: [00:08:03] You have to go to the post

[00:08:04] Rob: [00:08:04] office for that. Anyways. That's info@leadingedgeplanning.com.
And if you want to reach Ben Dickinson directly, call them at (865) 290-7523.

[00:08:18] Again, that's 8 6 5 2 9 0 7 5 2 3. That's enough of

[00:08:22] Charlie: [00:08:22] that, please call.

[00:08:24] Ben: [00:08:24] I need some more. I need some friends.

[00:08:29] Rob: [00:08:29] I know who I'm calling late Friday. Excellent. Let's jump in. We've
got options. I know we talked a little bit about. The pilot lounge would cover options,
covered calls and how to buy an airplane and the tax implications of these a little bit too
much to cover on one podcast. And we're just going to cover the options and covered calls.

[00:08:45] And we're going to get to the airplane and tax implications next week. Charlie,what do you got?

[00:08:50] Charlie: [00:08:50] Absolutely. We've got some top five considerations before
considering wait a second. That's redundant considerations before I said a lot of things here.

[00:09:00] Top five considerations before. Trading options. So yeah.
[00:09:04] Number one, what is your goal? Are you trying to make money? You're trying to
minimize risk. What are you trying to achieve here? Just like our now famous Bitcoin
discussion, it's like we don't just buy an investment to be buying it. We have to know why
we want it. Secondly, is it something, I think this is this has to be true.
[00:09:22] It has to interest you because you need to spend some time. Studying this stuff,
understanding it. Options can be boring and confusing. So you better enjoy it before you
jump in there. There's other ways to achieve the same results. So that's number two,
number three. Are there more profitable alternatives for you?
[00:09:37] In other words, how do you spend your time? Is there an, is there a better way to
spend your time maybe so profitable and maybe monetarily, maybe in quality of life, that's
number three, number four. Do you have the time. Maybe we just talked to that. I don't
know. Maybe that's a, maybe that's a sub-bullet of number three, nonetheless.
[00:09:54] It is. It does take a lot of time, and you've got to take that into consideration. If
you're taking time away from your normal [00:10:00] job, then there's a cost to that.
Number five. What other options do you have for your free time? Other hobbies, you might
enjoy spending time with your family instead of investing in options.
[00:10:10] But we'll talk about today. Investing in options, pros and cons, nuts and bolts. Yes,
that's true.
[00:10:15] Ben: [00:10:15] It's exciting. It's this has been a hot topic on on tip
[00:10:20] Rob: [00:10:20] tic-tac.
[00:10:22] Ben: [00:10:22] Yeah, absolutely. People are making millions from what I've seen some of these videos. According to these anonymous
[00:10:29] Charlie: [00:10:29] videos
[00:10:30] Rob: [00:10:30] and they've only lost 10 millions, so yeah,
[00:10:32] Ben: [00:10:32] exactly.
[00:10:33]They don't put this on important, it's not really that, that math doesn't really need
to work. Yeah.
[00:10:37] Yeah.
[00:10:39] Rob: [00:10:39] That's funny. We've got Obviously, we're going to explain a little
bit about options. We're not going to get too in the weeds. What are we not going to get
into? Oh my gosh. I wouldn't even some of those fancy
[00:10:48] Charlie: [00:10:48] terms.
[00:10:49] I want that straddles long call butterfly spreads are my favorite. Yeah. Not to be
confused with peanut butter spread.
[00:10:58]Rob: [00:10:58] No. That's different
[00:10:58] Charlie: [00:10:58] long [00:11:00] strangle, married put, but. But call spread. No,
that's not the butt call spread. It's the bull call spread. Sorry, I misread my notes there. I was
pretty close, protective collar rights and unwinds.
[00:11:13] So we're not going to, luckily we're not going to talk about any of those that,
especially the buck calls. Those are not fun to talk about.
[00:11:20] Rob: [00:11:20] Optimism.
[00:11:21] Ben: [00:11:21] Call me all the time, Charlie. We should talk about
[00:11:23] Rob: [00:11:23] this. That's a good point.
[00:11:26] Charlie: [00:11:26] We've got to
[00:11:26] Rob: [00:11:26] keep it professional today. Call you at eight six five two nine zero
seven.
[00:11:33] Yeah. All right. Excellent. We're not going to cover that. We're just going to keep
it high level, if you will, or low level or whatever, we're not gonna get into the details. Okay. I
love that. Yeah. So what is an option? It's a derivative means derived from something else
for our purposes today.
[00:11:48] We're just going to talk about stock options, where the options derive their value
from stock. Typically one option is worth. 100 shares. So that's the first part I [00:12:00]
want you to know. We get a little bit of the history here. Options are very old. They're not
brand new. They've been around quite awhile.
[00:12:05] They were even, yeah. During the stock market crash of 1720, and yes, you heard
me right. 1720, not 1929. Whoa. So back then too, people would go into a contract and
that's all an option is a contract between two parties. And they would enter it in the contract
or one person would write the contract, given the buyer the option to buy or sell the stock if
it hit the exercise or strike price on or before the exercise date.
[00:12:35] So it was just a contract between two people. That's it? That was back then.
Obviously if one person didn't have the shares or couldn't buy the shares, when the exercise
price was hit on the exercise date or before. Then that would be a problem. So in 1973,
Chicago board options exchange came about and they were able to solve some of these
problems.
[00:12:54] And now it's called CBO for you traders out there. , CBO came about helped solve
some of those problems. And if someone [00:13:00] wanted to write an option, Now they
needed to show that they had the shares and this exchange would make sure of this so that
someone would just, wasn't saying, oh, I've got the chairs when they didn't and take off to
London or something.
[00:13:11] And they, or they have money in a margin account. So they say, okay, you've got
money in a margin account. If the stock goes, whatever way we can put more in. And that's
what the margin call is, where you'd have to put more money in. I don't ever want to be a
part of those. I don't think there are any fun for.
[00:13:28]Some of the folks I've talked to who have been a part of those, you have to put
more money in and it can get ugly. But in any case, you get to a point where you're writing
options and they're called naked options or naked calls and naked puts. And all this means is
you don't know the shares.
[00:13:44]With the exchange you're on that margin account where you have that money
away so that they can go in there and trade on your behalf. If the stock goes the wrong way.
Opposite of being naked as being covered, which leads us to cover calls. Charlie, what do
you [00:14:00] got on to cover calls?
[00:14:02] Charlie: [00:14:02] They're not naked, so that's the good part.
[00:14:04] That's good. So options are like we say, can get very complicated as you've
already learned. Very difficult to follow along some of these, but the most basic. When I
was studying and learning about options they said is , you could do covered calls with your
grandmother.
[00:14:21] In other words, it's conservative enough to be able to do that. So that's the one
that people maybe are most familiar with and are able to do if they wanted to not a
recommendation if they want to do that in their 401k they can, in most 401k is like in an, in
a in a brokerage window of some sort.
[00:14:39] Of course in a taxable brokerage account at Schwab or E-Trade or fidelity, you can
do any of these things if you want to, or there's other brokerages out there that facilitate
options specifically. They specialize in that. However, again, we're going to focus on what is
a covered call.
[00:14:53] So let's pretend for a minute that, that I own a stock now. Now most people buy
covered calls [00:15:00] or write covered calls, the lingo there, like Robin said, okay. In a
market where they believe it may be flat, the stock market, the stock may go up in price a
little bit.
[00:15:09] It may go down a little bit, but flat that's when they might do a covered call, but
basically it can add income to your investment. So it's essentially like an income producing
strategy, maybe like a dividend, you could compare it to. So just real quick explanation, let's
say I own a stock ABC stock it's at $20 a share.
[00:15:29] So I own that stock and I say, Hey, I'm going to produce a little extra income. And
I'm going to sell a call option. I'm going to sell that contract. Someone's going to pay me to
do that. So I take that premium that I get paid by selling that a call option. I still own the
stock. Let's pretend then that the stock goes down.
[00:15:48]If the stock goes down, I still own the stock and I've got money for that call option
that I wrote to someone or sold to someone. So that's one scenario. Now let's say that I did
the same thing. I sold the call [00:16:00] option. And the stock goes up well, I've got the
premium from the call option that I sold stock goes up to the exercise price or strike price,
someone else exercises that option I am required to now sell my stock.
[00:16:14] And so it's gone. So in other words, let's say I own that stock at $20, ABC stock at
$20, I wrote a call. I received a premium, it went up to $25. It was called away because I had
to sell. So I made 20 excuse me, $5 on the increase in the stock. And I made a little bit of
premium on the selling of the covered call.
[00:16:35] So that is the strategy in a nutshell. And there's a lot of services out there that
offer that as in, I'll be honest with it, they offer it as some magic solutions and magic potion
to increase your 401k and make your life wonderful.
[00:16:50] Rob: [00:16:50] Yeah. And it's interesting why they might do that.
[00:16:54] You start talking about a lot of, Robin hood and, almost all the brokerages
nowadays are doing zero [00:17:00] commission trades for you. And a lot of people get
confused and they think, oh I'm not getting charged anything. Everything's great. And yes,
that is true. However, the brokers are still making a lot of money, especially when it comes
to option trading.
[00:17:13] So on a normal equity trade, a broker might make 17 cents portrayed off of
what's called. Payment for order flow. So that's where they get a kickback from the market
maker, the person actually doing the trade there, they get paid to channel the trade to that
person. And you'll never guess who actually pioneered profit for excuse me, payment for
order flow.
[00:17:39]Any guesses there? Bernie made off burning. Whoa. He planned here or helped
pioneer payment for order flow. So the broker gets a kickback. Yeah. You're not paying
anything, but they are getting paid off that bid ask spread is pretty big compared to a regular
[00:18:00] trade when you're talking about option trading and that market maker is able to
offer those guys as much as 58 cents.
[00:18:05] So 17 cents. Compared to 58 cents, those are just rough numbers there, but
they're making a lot of money off of option trading, which is why you'll see some companies
Robinhood, even TD Ameritrade, other companies wanting and pushing option trading
because they are getting a heck of a lot of money.
[00:18:22] I think one of the quarters, Robinhood and TD Ameritrade, there were upwards of
400 million during the quarter. So it's a wow, it's a lot of money out there and it makes sense
why they're pushing it because they get. Again, they get more money off of it. Off of those
zero commission trades there.
[00:18:39] They're getting quite a bit of money. Now, quick note here, fidelity doesn't accept
payment for order flow. And why do you care about that? You're like I don't care except that
if someone's getting paid to channel your trade to a certain market maker, that means you
may not get the most favorable [00:19:00] terms.
[00:19:00]If they're getting. If they're getting paid to send it to, Maydoff, then they're going
to send it to him to get paid. So anyways enough about that what'd you have,
[00:19:10] Ben: [00:19:10] yeah, that's a shame. I was just going to say. Yeah. Like you said,
with these. Different brokers out there that are now pushing options more.
[00:19:17]Options trading has exploded in popularity in the last 10, 15 years. And it keeps
increasing. I think I saw recently it was like 20 million options are traded a day now, and so
talk about a moneymaker, but then also talk about the popularity increase. Like it is a
serious thing and now.
[00:19:35] Again. I actually see it on social media, people talking about this as if it's, instant
way to, to make a bunch of cash. And so yeah, if you want to know these, the ins and outs,
but gut.
[00:19:47] Rob: [00:19:47] Yeah, absolutely. If you want to get into any of option trading,
just try to search for any podcast on opposite trading.
[00:19:53] You'll get a bazillion different ones out there because people are pushing it like
crazy. [00:20:00] Not to say you can't make money. You just better know the risks. And to
that point, some of the things, some of the things we talk about here at leading edge, if
you're going to do it, and you really, like Charlie said, you want to get into it.
[00:20:12] You're really interested in it. You have the time you have the, it's a hobby for you
or whatever, then you're going to want to put no more than at least what we advocate here
is no more than 5% of your portfolio in that you don't want to put too much because you
might lose it for one. If you're going to do it, make sure you define your risk and know your
downside.
[00:20:34] It can take years to get comfortable with it. That's something you're going to have
to make sure you have the time to get. Get good at it. It's not something you're just going to
pick up one day and say, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to be a great option straighter and make
a ton of money tomorrow.
[00:20:46] The one thing I will read here, which is pretty interesting is one of the quotes, the,
one of the quotes from TD Ameritrade that they make you read before you can even start
trading options.
[00:20:55] As opposites are not suitable for all investors. As the special risks inherent to
option [00:21:00] trading may expose investors to potentially rapid and substantial losses.
And it goes on to say a whole bunch of other things. Option trading privilege privileges in
your account are subject to TJ, TD Ameritrade review and approval.
[00:21:13] Not all accounts owners will qualify. So lots of different things out there. Charlie.
What else? What else do you got on options? Yeah.
[00:21:22] Charlie: [00:21:22] Yeah. It's just it's just, I don't know the way you think about
some of these things, a lot of times as investors, we're sold stuff, we're sold strategies.
[00:21:29] We're sold annuity, sometimes nothing wrong with annuities. If they fit your
situation, nothing wrong with options. If they fit your situations, don't get sold something
though. In other words, let's say someone's trying to sell me on call options. Call options are
great, cover calls, fine, income producing the stock gets called away, fine, whatever it can be
beneficial, but as a, as an accumulator right now in my life or any, let's say one of our pilots
still flying, do I really need to [00:22:00] produce some income?
[00:22:01] And my 401k, people are like of course I do. Maybe not because I really want to
keep those investments and I want them to grow. For the long-term, so what is it that I
really need because sometimes executing this fancy complex call strategy sounds really cool,
but is it really what I want?
[00:22:19] And I probably could do better if I, go, just go long on equities, period. And so
that's, I'm not trying to produce income until I'm in retirement. I really want capital
appreciation. So that's one of the things and the other thing is that, we talk about the risk of
options and there are some risks, but most options strategies they're designed to reduce
your risk, buying a put option, it's designed to provide a floor to a stock that you might own.
[00:22:47]To minimize losses, or like I said, covered calls, designed to produce a little bit of
extra income. So most of the time, these things, are risky mitigation strategies that large
insurance companies are using. Large [00:23:00] institutions are using hedge fund managers
are using an individual investor.
[00:23:04] I'm not so sure that we often understand exactly what options are for when we're
investing in them. In other words, most of our most investors will say, I just want to make
more money. Options probably aren't your best bet. Then you don't just go along the stock,
or as many oxygen you can.
[00:23:19] So anyway it's interesting how sometimes things are sold to us when we don't
really know exactly the purpose of the particular investment, we're just attracted to it
because of the complexity.
[00:23:29] Rob: [00:23:29] Yeah, that's a good point and note on that. If you're buying call
options or you're a call option holder, and you're not entitled to the quarterly dividends,
every other person is, that, that has, that just regularly buys that stock regardless of when
they purchase, when you purchase that option.
[00:23:47] So something to keep in mind, sometimes you don't capture those dividends,
which dividends aren't the end all be all, but they are, they do help in certain cases. So
something to keep in mind. Yeah.
[00:23:57] Ben: [00:23:57] Yeah. So I heard something that, . [00:24:00] And again, this is
the pilot lounge topic, cause this is something that we hear.
[00:24:04]That people are talking about and whether it be in the cockpit or in the pilot
lounge, but there's a lot of different people out there actually trying to sell what they call
like the, basically the signals of, Hey here's what options I'm looking at. Here's what options
you should go and buy.
[00:24:20] And then, you pay a subscription fee. They give you a, Hey here's three options a
week that you go and buy and here's the returns I'm making. It's crazy. That's just something
to look out for because I've seen that a lot going around. I've heard a few of our pilots tell us
this and that people are doing it and people are asked telling them about it.
[00:24:38]I would definitely do a lot of more research before you go ahead and subscribed
to something like that, because a lot of scams happen that way. And it seems to be
increasing in popularity. I don't know if you all have seen any of that advertised or anything,
but it's definitely something that you should be .
[00:24:53] Cautious of, if you see
[00:24:55] Rob: [00:24:55] it. Yeah. It's been floating around for sure. One of the pilots I flew
with [00:25:00] not too long ago, he's doing it and, I think he's trying to make sure he's doing
it the right way and protecting himself. But just a side note here, if you're riding or selling a
naked option, You get paid for writing that contract, but your losses can be all the way, you
could lose it all.
[00:25:15] So knowing your risk again, foot stomp in that know your risk, know your
downside as you're getting into this. And if you don't know that, then you probably shouldn't
be doing it.
[00:25:25] Charlie: [00:25:25] Yeah, exactly. And like we talked about before, there's a
couple other alternatives too. Like individual options contracts. So there's a lot of mutual
funds out there that, that take these strategies and wrap them into a mutual fund.
[00:25:39] In fact, there's an ETF. So we'll talk about it in a minute too. But so what I did is I
just Googled, the top 10 mutual funds that, that execute option strategies. So I've got the
top 10 . I put them in our software. And Rob, I was showing you this before we got on the
call here.
[00:25:55] And I was like, we'll look at the risk return profile of these investments in
[00:26:00] the expenses. We're all averaging. They probably average about 1.5. In fact, I
might be able to take a look right now, but it is significant, so here's an example for you on a
portfolio. You typically average a 0.16%.
[00:26:15]It's what our portfolios, average expense ratio. So for every a hundred thousand
dollars, that's $161. So the expense ratio of these option based mutual funds is an average
of almost 1.5%, which is $1,400 annually versus 161. So you've got huge expenses and oh, by
the way, let's take a look, is it worth it to have those expenses?

[00:26:37]No, it's not worth it because up until last fall, The intermediate term treasury was outperforming these top 10 together. So I took the top 10 option based mutual funds. I
equally split them, about 8.3%. And their performance was was just about on par with a
government [00:27:00] treasury. Wow. And so not only are you taking more risks, you're
paying more expenses, but I could have been the same thing with immediate term.

[00:27:06] Yeah. So I'll be honest with you. I don't get it. I don't get, because one, an investor doesn't usually a mutual fund like this for a timing strategy. If I'm going to buy a mutual fund like this, I'm going to let those managers execute their strategy. That's the whole point. And that's why you pay more expenses.
[00:27:23] But they've not really done what they said they were going to do. So anyway, I'm just very fascinated at why and what place. Cause that's what we think about Rob and Ben is like as investment advisors. Where, what role does this play in my portfolio? Does it provide diversification? Does it add value? When times are tough, does it help me?

[00:27:44]Let me tell you about in 2020, the options based mutual fund portfolio that I
created returned 3.6, 2%. Intermediate term government treasury 7.5%. Okay. If you'd just
done a 70, 30 portfolio, you probably [00:28:00] would've gotten mid-teens. So what role, a lot of people say you gotta have alternatives in your portfolio.

[00:28:05] Wow. I don't get it. So I'm not sure, you know what I'm missing here. But I don't think I want them in my portfolio.
[00:28:12] Ben: [00:28:12] It's like people it, there's something about the complexity of it
and, Hey, we're doing all these options training. It may sound great. Hey, we're doing all this look, look at all this complex stuff we're doing it sounds maybe good on the surface, but really, yeah, like you look at the numbers, you look at the fees involved, you look at the risk profile, you look at what are their returns been, and you start to realize that just because things are really complex and these portfolio managers are really active. Doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for you.

[00:28:40] Charlie: [00:28:40] Yeah. And that's a behavioral thing as investors. We just can't believe sometimes that it can really be that simple to own a diversified portfolio.

[00:28:49]Government treasuries provide the best diversification and in difficult times, at
least they've shown to do that in, in, in history anyway. So we, it's just our natural tendency
to look for something [00:29:00] really complex. Somebody has got to have the secret potion out there and listen to these names, equity call a premium, a tactical core fund, enhanced equity, income, strategic program, risk emergent.

[00:29:11]It's that sounds pretty good but it looks when you look, dig a little deeper, it
doesn't look so, so good. So anyway, so sometimes simple wins out in these types of
situations.

[00:29:20] Ben: [00:29:20] It's boring just to own a fund with a bunch of companies in there, but then you look deeper and you realize, these companies that like it and are just a regular portfolio, that's not doing these complex options.

[00:29:31]These are companies and businesses that are doing complex things behind the scenes, trying to make more money for their company and grow. So really it's not boring. It just, it may sound more boring than that. I want that tactical, a whatever you called it. That sounds pretty cool, but really it's just a S a smoke and mirrors from what it seems like,
obviously on the, in those tendencies.

[00:29:52]But is there a place for options?
[00:29:56] Rob: [00:29:56] Yeah. Sure. Sure. I think if you're going to be [00:30:00] trading stocks, individual stocks, and you're scratching that itch again with a very small portion of your portfolio and you're trading stocks, I can see where you're going to head some of those positions. Yeah. To protect yourself from the downside.

[00:30:12] And that's where I see if you're going to be doing that. Then, that's one thing. Or again, if you're really adamant and you're really You really want to get into this, riding those covered calls and doing some of those things with a small portion of your portfolio. I think it could be interesting too.

[00:30:26] And it's got an appeal to it, to some

[00:30:27] Charlie: [00:30:27] people. Yeah., and the way we make decisions is interesting. If

I just had my speculative money out, and I'm ready to go do some different things and just
learn about investing. I'd have no problem doing covered calls.

[00:30:39] I have no problem. With put options buying put options, they create that floor for you, and they're better than doing like a limit order. limit order on a single stock or a put option is better than that because it gives you more flexibility. We won't go into too many details, but think about it this way.

[00:30:53]If the choices of my hobbies and my off time are like to do put call, put options
and cover calls

[00:31:00] versus say, buying a horse. I think you're way way better, better off doing covered calls. Okay. Let me just put that out there because you don't have to feed
them. You don't have to call the vet. You just have to spend some time and if you enjoy it,
great do it. But like you said, Rob, just understand that it's speculative unless you've unless you're doing something little more conservative, again, cover calls, fairly conservative, just to understand which kind of options strategy you're doing.

[00:31:25] Rob: [00:31:25] Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah.

[00:31:28]Charlie: [00:31:28] Hey, do we have time to talk about the the last ETF?
[00:31:32] Rob: [00:31:32] I, yeah, absolutely. I think so.

[00:31:34] Charlie: [00:31:34] I think so. Like you said, Ben, the options are used by our
clients, if they buy and, in fact to fixed indexed annuities and that's, that sounds like a dirty word to some of us, but there are some times when fixed index annuities are appropriate, just depends.

[00:31:50]But those types of annuities use option strategies. They use out of the money calls in the money calls and they create. This floor for [00:32:00] investors and they create a cap.

Now all of that is very confusing. We won't go into detail on how those constructed, but
sometimes they're appropriate.

[00:32:07] Sometimes they can serve a purpose and that's why insurance companies use them. So that's one example. There's another example, and this is a relatively new thing in there called buffer ETFs. You can look these up online. They're called innovator ETFs and they came out a few years ago. And basically what they do is they're that fender fixed indexed annuity that I just described where there's a floor created, and then there's a ceiling created.

[00:32:30]. So a couple of years ago, these buffer ETFs came out and they've since multiplied like crazy, they have all kinds of them right now.

[00:32:37]. They don't talk about how exactly how they construct them. But nonetheless, I
could buy one of these buffer ETFs it's in an ETF wrapper, which makes it much more
transparent.

[00:32:46] I know what to expect. I say because there still are some things to think about. I know the expenses they're less than an insurance product. The fact they're about 0.8% is the expense ratio, which is expensive for an ETF. There's no doubt about it, but there's a lot of moving parts going on here.

[00:33:00] [00:33:00] So I will tell you that last year during the COVID downturn this was an alternative to getting out of the market completely. It's not a panacea. If I, when I describe it to you right now, it will sound like a panacea. Okay. So in other words, I can buy an ETF. That's called a buffer ETF S and P 500 is what I'm tracking.

[00:33:19] It protects me for the first 9%. Decline. In other words, the stock, the market goes down S and P goes down 8%. I don't go down at all. So that sounds pretty good. Now, if I go to, if it goes down 20, then I'm going to go down 10 ish. The difference. Okay. So there is not complete protection, but they have other ones that can protect you almost 30% on the downside.

[00:33:39] That sounds great. But the upside is also kept much, much lower. Ah, so see how
these get complicated really quickly. There's the rub. So now is it an alternative? And again, going back to, how does this fit in my port polio last year, we thought, Hey, should we use these or not? And in fact, we tried [00:34:00] to talk to, if a client was having difficulty maintaining their plan in the market, they wanted to go to all cash, which we thought was a bad move.

[00:34:09] Then buffer ETS, we thought were a good solution. Because it provided
somewhat of a predictable outcome. In other words, at the end of this one-year period,
they're all based off of one year, because that's when the options expire, you know what
you're going to be limited to on the downside and the upside.

[00:34:27] So that provided some people, some certainty in a time where uncertainty was rampant. I talked to one person last year and they said, Hey, I think we're headed for the great depression. And I couldn't disagree with him. I had nothing to come back to cause
anything could have happened. That sounds silly.

[00:34:40] Maybe looking back now, but at the time it was pretty scary, a lot of uncertainty.

Now they're not a stock replacement. And maybe they're not a bond replacement, maybe
they're a hybrid, so you gotta think about how you're using them in your portfolio.

[00:34:52] There's pros and cons to everything. I'll go over the couple of negatives real quick.

They're very expensive. Like I said, 0.8% is a very high expense ratio for [00:35:00] ETFs, but you can understand why, because they have options, et cetera, going on inside these ETFs, they're likely to underperform during strong bull markets.

[00:35:09] Now last year, there was such a quick recovery hindsight being what it is.
Probably would have been better off not going into buffer ETFs. However, remember what I
said, it was a stretch, it was an option to go in into cash. We stayed in the market. We've got
some return, not as much as the S and P gives it recovered quickly and strongly stronger
than we ever thought it would.

[00:35:29]So there, there are these ETFs that have these options strategies, quite frankly,
they're going to underperform in the longterm. That's just what you're gonna have to, put up with they're complicated. They have a lot of moving parts. So again, anytime you use an
options, strategies, you need to know what you're doing and know what to expect, because there's nothing worse as an investor investing in something thinking I'm going to have this
result in the exact opposite happens.
[00:35:53] So I think that's one of the big things to consider.

[00:35:57] Rob: [00:35:57] Yeah, absolutely. That is a great [00:36:00] example. Charlie and to piggyback on that, that's one of the reasons why we are so adamant that we're getting your risk analysis, right? Because we want to know when COVID hits, when you know, the 2008 financial crisis hits, we want to know what your risk tolerance is.

[00:36:16] Sometimes you can't know until it happens. And I get that. But if you can, and if
you can simulate it and share flat or whatever you're going to do to see when COVID hits, I'm okay with it going down, 30 to 40%, and I'll, I'm going to be just fine because I'm a long-term investor or I've got my risk.

[00:36:32] I know I've got bonds. , and I'll be able to get through this rebalancing and those
kinds of things. So I don't need to get into to these options that we're talking about right
now, even the ETFs. If you've got your risk analysis nailed, you don't need to get into that.

[00:36:46] If you don't or if you start getting cold feet, that's where an advisor can really
help you out and get you through those hard times. All right. Anything else?
[00:36:58] Charlie: [00:36:58] I think that's about it. Like I said, if you're going to [00:37:00] do horses, the options are better.
[00:37:06] That's it? In a nutshell, I just got my little girl four chickens, because like I said, last time our chickens got eaten by someone besides me or something besides me. I don't like it.

We've got some new chickens. We're going to do some goats. But we're not going to do
horses. As long as I can stiff arm that as long as I have a say in my own family, Which may
not [00:37:26] Rob: [00:37:26] be very long.
[00:37:28] Yeah. Good luck. We're all counting on you. I'll

[00:37:32] Charlie: [00:37:32] talk a bit. Let's talk a big talk. Yeah, my daughter, this
weekend, we got chickens. Soon as we got chicken. So daddy, did you say I could get horses when I'm 12? No. 15. I said 15 and before it was 20 she's already talked me down. She's already anchored me down five years.

[00:37:47] It was 20 before
[00:37:50] Rob: [00:37:50] hires you hire her now. That's awesome. Good stuff. We've
arrived at our final destination. This I [00:38:00] believe is flight nine, episode nine. Thanks for joining this year. Pilot money guys podcast. If you have any questions. You would like us to answer anything on the show.
[00:38:09] Shoot me or Charlie and email Robert leading edge planning.com.
charlie@leadingedgeplanning.com or been@leadingedgeplanning.com. Any of us throw us an email. We'll try to cover it. Leave you with a couple of Charlie Munger quotes. The big
money is not in buying or selling, but in the waiting a second one, here is a lot of people with high IQs, terrible investors, because they've got terrible temperaments.

[00:38:35] That's it, if you like, what you heard, please hit that subscribe button so we can reach more people. And remember, as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who know where they're going. So plan accordingly from all of us here at leading edge. Thanks for
stopping [00:38:52] Charlie: [00:38:52] we're out.

[00:38:55] Voice Actor: [00:38:55] Thank you for listening to the pilot money guys podcast.
[00:38:58] It has been our pleasure to [00:39:00] share some information with you today.

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Categories
Charlie High Income Pilots Retirement Mistakes

Trust Your Instruments, Not Your Gut, When it Comes to Flying AND Investing!

​As a brand-new pilot, one of the first things you learn is how to mitigate the risk of the potentially deadly physiological phenomenon known as spatial disorientation or spatial-D. In pilot speak, spatial-D is when your body is telling you one thing and your flight instruments (and airplane) are telling you something completely different. Sadly, spatial-D has claimed the lives of many pilots.

In this video, one of our newest Leading Edge team members and previous Marine F/A-18 fighter pilot, Mark Covell discusses just one example of spatial-D.  Mark shares how carrier pilots tend to feel like they are pitching up as they are launched off the carrier at night due to the massive acceleration from the catapult. During daytime, VFR conditions this is probably a non-issue. However, in weather, or at night, this type of spatial-D is potentially deadly.

What does spatial-D have to do with investing and retirement planning? Personally, I feel like all of 2020 could be compared to being catapulted off a carrier at night and not knowing what is up or what is down.

During the heat of the battle from February until the markets settled a bit in early April, investor emotions were all over the place. Years of stock market gains evaporated in days, even hours. Furthermore, many people thought, and the news media quickly suggested we were headed for the second Great Depression. And don’t get me wrong, anything was (and is) possible. Sometimes, the unknown can be truly scary.

One slightly humorous example of investor spatial-D was early in the pandemic when the shares of ticker symbol ZOOM shot up due to investors buying up shares as quickly as possible. Zoom Technologies, a so-called penny stock had risen more than 240% in the span of a month before the SEC suspended trading. Unfortunately, the traders failed to realize the ticker symbol ZOOM did not represent the Cloud Video Conferencing company Zoom they thought they were purchasing – Ticker symbol ZM.

Here is the headline from MarketWatch.com dated February 27, 2020.

In the airplane, pilots must fight spatial-D by cross-checking and TRUSTING their instruments. If, as an investor, you did not trust your instruments during 2020, it may have been very costly.

So, it’s a dark night and the weather is terrible.  What are the instruments you trust?  What is your primary and backup instrument? Here are four instruments that I think can save your investments as well as your financial sanity during uncertain times…

1. Cash reserves – Emergency Funds.

    • Having extra cash can prevent withdrawals from retirement accounts or excessive credit card debt in emergencies.  Studies also show having cash in a bank account makes people happy. In an article posted on PYMNTS.com,  “Can Cash Really Make You Happier”, Joe Gladstone, research associate at the University of Cambridge in the U.K. and co-author of two recent studies about money and happiness said,

“We find a very interesting effect: that the amount of money you have in your bank account right now is a better predictor of happiness than your aggregate wealth,” Gladstone explained. “Having more money in their bank account makes people feel more financially secure, which leads to an increase in happiness.”

2. Have a working knowledge of financial history.

    • You don’t have to be an expert or financial historian, but I believe being familiar with financial history is akin to training before you go on a flying mission.  Pilots call this chair flying.  Athletes and musicians use a technique called visualization that helps them prepare for uncertainty and reduce anxiety for a sporting event or concert.

3. Admit that times are scary, and you do not know what’s going to happen.

    • This may sound silly, but I’ve seen many people get themselves into a “square corner” because they assumed that something was going to happen when in fact there was no indication or possible way of knowing what the future may hold.  We have heard investors say “my gut tells me…” many times.
      • Some of the best investors in the world invest with the mindset of preparing to be wrong. That’s why diversification is not popular or “sexy” because it’s like admitting you don’t know what’s going to happen in the future, so you must prepare for multiple scenarios.  However, diversification can feel disappointing but prove to be a profitable strategy over the long term.

BlackRock Investment Management Company posted the graphic below on their investor education website about diversification and “S&P Envy” over the last 20 years.

4. Prepare and Plan by having a clear vision of your goals and priorities.

    • If you don’t understand the “why” behind your investments as well as why you’re investing and saving in the first place, you will most likely bail-out of your plan during difficult and uncertain times.  Changing your investment plan mid-crisis creates a very high likelihood that your investment returns will be significantly lower.
    • Simon Sinek started a movement by encouraging businesses to “Start with Why.” It’s a powerful mindset that leads to trust, inspiration and success.  I believe the same applies to your financial and investment game plan.

5. Remember that you are invested in companies – not politics.

    • Sometimes our politics clouds the investment and retirement planning picture.  This rule falls under the axiom; “control the controllable.”  If you’re allowing your politics to affect your investment game plan than you may want to see rule number 2 above.

Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this video will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 12/09/2020 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.