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Flight #18: Money Advice To Share With Your Kids

Pilot Money Guys:

Kids and Money!

Welcome to Flight #18, where we are discussing kids and money!

This podcast is all about helping your kids take the first steps to financial freedom and independence. We discuss some of the steps we all wish we would have taken when we were first starting out as new savers and investors.

We believe we should help our kids learn from other's successes and mistakes - We do not have time to make them all ourselves! In fact, life is a series of building off the successes and failures we all experience. Sharing those lessons with our kids is easy in some areas but with finances it can be tough. Don’t let that stop you from preparing them for a great financial future.

“Children are sponges—they are going to absorb whatever is around them, so we need to be intentional about what surrounds them.” — Dave Ramsey

Our kids will learn from our money habits whether we like it or not. We encourage parents to communicate money matters to their kids as well as be honest and transparent as much as possible, so they don’t make the same money mistakes we made.

In this podcast we cover the most important financial topics for getting started. We believe this content can help you have great conversations with your kids. They still won’t think your cool, but I bet they’ll listen and learn something.

Our goal for our clients is to help their kids build a foundation of financial knowledge that will set them up for success in the future!

Thank you for listening!

This hypothetical illustration assumes an annual 6% return. The illustration doesn't represent any particular investment, nor does it account for inflation. Source:https://investor.vanguard.com/retirement/savings/when-to-start

This chart shows that if you start saving earlier, you can have a higher balance at retirement than someone who saves more but starts later. If you contribute $10,000 a year from age 25 to age 40, for a total investment of $150,000, it could grow to $1,058,912 by the time you're age 65. If you contribute $10,000 a year from age 35 to age 65, for a total investment of $300,000, it could grow to $838,019 by the time you're age 65.

 

Can You Beat COWBELL in timing the market?!

https://www.personalfinanceclub.com/time-the-market-game/

 

Podcast Transcription:

Flight #18: Kids and Money

[00:00:00] Voice Actor: ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard the pilot money guys podcast, where our mission is to help clients build and protect wealth to achieve their dreams. And. This podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning without further ado. Here is your host Robert equity.

[00:00:31] Rob: Hey folks. Welcome to flight 18.

[00:00:34] We're talking kids and money today. The tip of the Kaptio. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast, where we cover some airline news except for today. And of course, a financial times. We aim to educate and bring some lighthearted financial fund to your day. I'm your host, Rob Ackland.

[00:00:50] I'm a little under the weather. So the godfather Charlie Madingley certified financial planner and leading edge founder is with us. Hello godfather. Hello? Hello.

[00:00:59] Charlie: How's it going? I'm sorry. You're feeling feeling badly, but uh, we're gonna, you all were trying to keep me down last time. I was feeling bad. So this time we kicked you out, you're down to.

[00:01:12] Rob: So you

[00:01:12] Ben: wouldn't fight and he's also rocking a mustache for all that. Anyone on

[00:01:17] Charlie: YouTube, how to do the YouTube, which really makes my teeth look huge. It looks

[00:01:21] Rob: great. Yeah. Does dentist nice? I've of course set a little shout out to Alaska or Borealis. That's my background. Yeah. Ben's got the max. You got the max is your background.

[00:01:34] Ben: And I do, I do have the max. Yeah. Um,

[00:01:38] Charlie: the good oldest button that was the good old days.

[00:01:41] Rob: Oh, that's the ejection button don't hit that don't hit. Oh yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Well, and of course we've got Mr. Cal bell Ben tickets and welcome Ben. Thank you. Good to be

[00:01:51] Ben: here. All

[00:01:52] Charlie: right. Did you introduce yourself as a mallet?

[00:01:55] Rob: I did it today. You know, why, why have calls me the Viking idiot? Any of those can, I

[00:02:02] Charlie: will answer. You can substitute. And I mean, I'm starting to like Malad a little bit, I think it sounds kind of cool if you, if you just absolutely reject that notion, we will, we will start again, but you can't. But I like it because we started off as the MC hammer, which was a little too much too strong, but you are the MC and you are a hammer, but then you said, Hey, let's soften that a bit.

[00:02:22] So we went to rubber. Rubber mallets too many syllables and too many words. Yes.

[00:02:29] Rob: Well, last my days is an evaluator MC hammer.

[00:02:34] Charlie: I'm seeing him. So, I mean, I don't know a mallet that is really starting to sound pretty good. Just as long as we keep the story from straying too far from the temporary nature, we have 10% rule.

[00:02:44] Rob: Okay, fantastic. Well, we're going to talk some aviation news. I've got this one. I think. So there's this day in history, actually, it wasn't from today, but it's from two days ago. Close enough. On October 12th, 1944. First Lieutenant Charles Elwood, Yeager of the air Corps army. The United States shut down five count of five.

[00:03:11] in one second. Wow. Becoming an ACE in a day. That's air quotes. They're ACE in a day. The termination today is used to designate a pilot who shut down five or more airplanes in a single day, based on the usual definition of. As one with five or more aerial victories. Right. Wow. That's incredible.

[00:03:28] Charlie: That's

[00:03:29] Ben: amazing.

[00:03:30] Was it just, uh, you know, best, you know, right place, right time.

[00:03:34] Rob: Oh man. So I've got, I've got his, I've got his whole quote cause it's it's worth now. He was a P 51, a Mustang fighter pilot signed it a three 63rd fighter squadron near the village of, uh, I might be butchering this, but that Britain Suffolk.

[00:03:50] Albertson's pretty good. Pretty good.

[00:03:52] Charlie: As far as I

[00:03:52] Rob: know, anyways, here's Jagger's quote, it was almost comic scoring two quick victories without firing a shot. By now, all the airplanes in the sky had dropped their wing tanks and were spinning and diving in a wild wide open dog fight. I guess two of them collided.

[00:04:07] I stopped shooting at him. I blew up a 1 0 9 from 600 yards, uh, my third victory. So he shot at one of them and he hit his wing man and they both had. So he didn't. So I guess he barely had to do two for one, two for one. And then when I turned to see another angling in behind me, man, I pulled back the throttle.

[00:04:26] So bleep hard. I nearly stalled rolled up and over. It came in behind and under him kicking right rudder and simultaneously firing. It was directly underneath the guy less than 50 feet. And I opened up the 1 0 9 as if it were a can of spam.

[00:04:40] Charlie: Less than 50

[00:04:40] Rob: feet. 50 feet that made four that's incredible moment.

[00:04:46] A moment later, I waxed the guy's Fanny and a steep dive. I pulled up at about a thousand feet. You went straight into the ground. Crazy. Wow. You're talking 12, 19 44. Top. That really is awesome. Top that

[00:05:01] Charlie: cowbell. That's

[00:05:01] Ben: pretty incredible. I mean, I've done some cool stuff. My drone. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:05:07] I mean, Chuck would be proud, but I can't beat that. You're right.

[00:05:14] Rob: That's a good one. All right. Any other things we want to

[00:05:19] Charlie: talk about? Nothing going on at all in the world of aviation to see here. Nope. Turn away from anything you see in the news. Yeah. Vaccinations airlines. We're not, uh, we're not, we're going to stay lighthearted today, folks. Okay. There's a lot of serious stuff going on.

[00:05:37] And I told Rob today, look, we got to have some humor. How else can you get through these times? Without some humor, you gotta laugh. You gotta laugh about it. Otherwise you'll go crazy. So that's what we're doing. We're not going to address those things today. Too many variables too. Uh, too many unknowns and let's do a hurtful still.

[00:05:53] So we'll wait. Yeah, we'll wait

[00:05:55] Rob: too soon to right. Well, let's get into our financial topic then this one, actually, I'm really excited about it's kids in. And how do you talk to your kids about money? What are some things to think about? We're going to cover the mentality you should use, how they should use money.

[00:06:11] When they first get started at a young age, the savings and investing, they should do, um, three different ways. You can choose to save with them. And of course, in that, we're going to talk about UTMs and Ross. Um, and we'll get into. Charlie, what have you got anything? Oh, right off the bat. We're talking mentality.

[00:06:31] Oh,

[00:06:31] Charlie: we got tons of stuff. The toughest part about today is keeping it, , succinct and meaningful. , we're going to try to give some real practical applications to kids and money, just stuff we've learned from other,, people that we know clients have taught us a lot of things to do with their.

[00:06:51] Ben is, uh, is the one that remembers it the most clearly, I think. Right. And so he can help us a little bit. It's been a while for you and I Rob, especially, especially me, but I do remember a lot now, in fact, that the first thing that I remember, uh, or sticks in my brain and, and, and helped me get a good star and overcome some of my other Follies down the road.

[00:07:13] I was just starting early. And let me, I'm going to share with you guys, um, and, and our YouTube audience as well, but check the power of starting early is unbelievable. Okay. So here we go. Um, and we'll talk to this graphic, but again, our podcast listeners go to YouTube, check this out or Google it it's everywhere.

[00:07:35] So here's an example and the power of starting now and Ben, you and I, the other day, we're talking to, uh, one of our. Sons. He just is getting started in the workforce. He's got a great job, right? And he's like, Hey, he called us up, which is awesome. We encourage all of our clients, kids to call us. We love to talk about it.

[00:07:55] He was actually 25. So he said, this is perfect. This is you. So if you start saving at 25 and in this example on the screen, You say you start saving at 25, you save $10,000 a year. I don't know the rate of return in this particular example, I think it's five, six or seven doesn't matter because it kind of cancels out.

[00:08:12] The point is still the same, uh, in the, in the, in the examples. Anyway, so this person started saving a 25, 10,000 a year. They invested it and they stopped saving at age 40. Now at age 65, they had a little over a million. Now, this person's friend, we'll call him. Ben Dickinson started saving at 35 and they saved all the way they did not.

[00:08:40] You know, they started at 35 instead of 25. They started, they saved all the way through 65 and they only ended up with 840,000 versus the over a million. So let me re reiterate Ben's friend saved at 28, 25 for 15 years in. They had a million bucks, Ben say from 35 to 65, 30 years. And it has 840,000. I mean it's yeah,

[00:09:08] Ben: that hurts.

[00:09:08] That really hurts seeing that I knew my friend was doing well, but I, I didn't realize that. Well, he saved half as much as me. Yes.

[00:09:18] Charlie: It's that really was wild. All right, Rob, what do you think? Beautiful. Any thoughts? I love it. It's powerful.

[00:09:25] Rob: I, you know, I think it can kind of tie into, um, you know, just the power of saving early, which there's a mentality on that.

[00:09:34] And I think we should get in a little bit of that. I think when you talk to your kids about money, you should have an abundance mentality . And instead of using certain language, like we can't.

[00:09:44] When you go to the store and you're looking to buy a toy or whatever. Um, it's I think a little bit more helpful to say we haven't budgeted for that at this time, or how are we going to afford that? How are we going to budget for that in the future? So if we prioritize that you want that Tonka toy, well, let's save for it.

[00:10:01] Let's see how we're going to get there. Um, and I think families that actually have conversations about money. It probably as long as they're not too negative. I think it has. People get comfortable with the idea, as opposed to, , there's certain families that, that money is taboo. Ask your dad how much he makes is just not anything you would do.

[00:10:20] And I think that just kinda makes the subject of money taboo. So you don't want to talk about it, maybe it's evil. And, uh, the other thing is when families get into the, to a, probably a bad scenario where they're highly. Certain, thanks from their significant others, such as you hide, you know, you go off to a clothing store or toy store and you say, Hey, it's going to be our secret.

[00:10:43] We're not gonna tell mom about this. Probably not the best thing. Cause you're just teaching them. You know that again, money's kind of evil. Um, so yeah, we wanna, we want to teach the abundance mentality where you're saying, Hey, you've got to. Well, let's see how we're going to get it. And then the reason they're getting the toys, because you were smart with your money, as opposed to just saying they can't have it.

[00:11:05] And the reason why they can have it is because of money. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah,

[00:11:10] Charlie: yeah. Same. We can't afford it kind of, kind of a cop out just saying we can't afford it and maybe that's true, you know, sometimes, uh, but, uh, but I like what you're saying, especially. Um, about the communicating abundance mentality, you know, and, and to me, abundance mentality means being generous.

[00:11:24] And I think there's a whole lot to learn there. That's a whole nother podcast, but one of the things, um, before I hand it off to, uh, the, uh, what's your name again, been the, uh, we call on because Jesus, today we call you cowbell. Before I ended off to Cabell, , one of the things I, I tried, I've tried this with my 15 year old daughter, because when we.

[00:11:45] See clients and, uh, talk to them and just friends and family, you know, sometimes their parents did it, right. They did a good job or the best they could, but if it's not communicated, there are misunderstandings. So not only is it important to behave well as an example to your children, but you have to tell your children how you're behaving to make it clear because there will be misunderstand.

[00:12:10] , you're talking about a young kid looking at something that they don't understand, and they're going to learn lessons from that, whether you like it or not. So I just wanted to expound on what you said, Rob, it's super important, but a cowbell. What do you

[00:12:21] Ben: think? Yeah, I think I'm going back to what Rob was saying that, that kind of teaches more financial independence as well, which is what you're going to.

[00:12:32] When you, when you go out on your own is okay. All of a sudden I'm not getting any support from anybody. Would I, how am I going to manage my finances? And personally, um, I had a lot, uh, I had support going through school and, and, um, but once I graduated, once I got my job after school, it was like, well, here you are, you're on your own.

[00:12:53] You know, you have to, you have to budget. You have to, uh, set your goals. If you want to buy something, you can't, you maybe can't buy it right when you want. And sometimes that can be a really difficult transition, um, and starting to, to create that mentality of abundance. And Hey, if you want something you're going to have to work for it, um, or you're going to have to save or set it as a goal.

[00:13:14] I think starting that as, as early as possible is going to be, there's going to be really huge. I think, um, we've talked about, about this. , you want, you want the best for your kids. You want them to, you know, maybe be in a better position than you were at their. Um, but sometimes there are lessons that need to be learned.

[00:13:31] , and the only way to learn them is to , let them do it themselves. And so you, you may even be able to afford the toys that, that they're wanting, but sometimes it, maybe it's better to just say, Hey, let's, let's figure out how you can buy this yourself. And not only that, but at the end of the day, you feel better about yourself.

[00:13:45] You've accomplished it and you've worked and saved and gotten the thing that you want. Um, and that's a really valuable lesson. , when you're a young adult,

[00:13:52] Rob: Yeah. I think there's a key distinction there. When you're talking abundance mentality, it's just the way you're going about your life, that money.

[00:13:59] Isn't something that is so limited that you can't do certain things. It's more, Hey, we can use money to our advantage. And how do we do that? It's not, um, would, I think a lot of parents who have gotten into the habit of, and I'm certain, I'm probably guilty of it. Myself is just, you know, you know, handing my kid, whatever they want at certain times.

[00:14:18] And that's not helpful either. I don't think, uh, just giving them whatever they want or, you know, obviously they get spoiled and they don't understand the meaning of money. Tell you we're going to say something.

[00:14:27] Charlie: I mean, I think this podcast is, is fun because we're talking about. We're talking to young adults that are just getting started at college, was talking to parents of young kids.

[00:14:37] Like we have a Rob and we're talking to. Ben's age group as well on, on maybe even some things on what accounts to invest in. We'll talk about that in a minute, but it's a funny story real quick with my, uh, gosh, I can't remember how old my daughter was. I don't know, 8, 9, 10. I would give her like five bucks and said, you can have these $5 and let's go to Walmart and, you know, take her to the toy section and hunter, you can buy whatever you want.

[00:15:02] Cause I wanted her to make these choices for trade-offs. Well, you can have this, but, uh, but you could also have this and just, you know, thinking about that. So you probably know already what I'm going to get get at. And that's when I gave her $5, she came back to me after 20 minutes, I was like, dad, I can't buy anything, nothing to buy when $5.

[00:15:22] I was like, okay, sorry. A little out of touch here, but just some practical, stuff. As far as savings, we talked about saving early, , parents, you can start a custodial Roth. We'll talk about the nuts and bolts of that in a minute, you can start a UTMA or sometimes they're called . We'll talk about the pros and cons in a minute as well.

[00:15:44] Uh, we could do a whole podcast on each one of those, but another technique is to match the CA your, your child's savings. Hey, you save a hundred bucks. I'm at you a hundred dollars. That's training, , for, for future savings and 401ks and such,.

[00:15:58] Somebody told me . One time, they said, we give our kids allowances or pay them for chores. And we encourage them to save 10% to give away 10% to something that they find meaning. And then do the rest with whatever they want. You know, that's a pretty good little habit pattern and kind of like you said, Rob teaches , the abundance mentality.

[00:16:18] And so I think that's a really good technique as well.

[00:16:22] Rob: Yeah, for sure. I think I'm kind of backing up a little bit when you very first start with your kids being tangible or using tangible money, using cold, hard cash. Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah. When they can see the value of a dollar and they can see it coming in and you pay them for whatever work they did and they see it going out when they buy whatever it is they want, that helps them get an understanding of, oh, I can't work for this.

[00:16:50] I got this amount of money and it's going out. Eventually they're going to graduate. Right. They're going to graduate to apps. And of course, with all the technology, these days, they're going to have debit cards or credit cards or whatever they're going to use. And they're going to have an app on their phone.

[00:17:03] Tied to that. And even then be as tangible as you can be right with them. So like for my son, we have a capital 1, 360, a high yield savings account for him. And we'll get into that a little bit. I think it's, uh, uh, it's too much fun. I geek out about it, but I think, you know, when I, when I pay him for doing, uh, an extra job around the house , he does certain chores just because he's part of the family.

[00:17:23] He doesn't get paid for that. He can go above and beyond and do other things. Did he gets paid for it. So when he does those, I actually slide and there's a transfer, uh, slide to transfer on your, on your iPhone. Uh, when you're in new capital 1, 360 account, and you just slide it and it shows it going into his account and you can actually look and say, okay, the money's transferred from my account and now your accounts up $10 or $20 or whatever it is.

[00:17:48] And I think just kind of having that, Account where you can see that's a, I'm losing the word here, but a tangible, tangible, there we go. That's the one where you can actually feel it. , see it, touch it. And they see, okay. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, in my account now, as opposed to you just give them an open-ended account and all of a sudden they're out of money and,

[00:18:10] Ben: so yeah, my, my parents tried to teach me how to balance a checkbook and I don't think since then, I have ever used to balance a checkbook cause everything's on, on the app.

[00:18:20] I mean, they're so, um, anyway, that's just kind of, didn't really help me at all.

[00:18:27] Rob: Right?

[00:18:28] Charlie: What I liked about what you said, Rob, when you pay your children allowance, there's there's stuff they should be doing because they're part of the.

[00:18:37] Cleaning the room picking up after themselves, whatever. Hey, you're part of this unit. However, if you want to do something extra, , like Polish my shoes or something. No, no, I'm not. I'm positive. Mow the grass or whatever then. Yeah, that's an allowance, so we talked about, , saving how to help your children get started on that, you know, spending plans and Ben, you mentioned setting goals and saving for them, , teaching that delayed gratification, which is huge, which I don't think any of us have anymore, but what we call this, uh, in the nerd nerd world or financial planning is bringing these future expenses into the.

[00:19:14] And that applies to all of us, by the way, today I was working on my spending plan for the next quarter and I had to put on there, uh, a new car, probably not a new car, but a used car. And I haven't had a car payment a long time and it's going to hurt, but we, we just recently lost a car, which is another story for another day, but it's painful.

[00:19:34] So I had to put it in there and it's painful. I got to face. But bring those expenses that are 1, 2, 3 years out, bring them in platform right now.

[00:19:43] Ben: . Yeah. Um, absolutely. The first thing, just, just for, for the spending plan thing.

[00:19:49] Uh, first, first big purchase. After I started my first job, I went out and bought a, a medical. Um, literally with my first, my first paycheck. And then I had, uh, I had the rest of the month where then I realized, oh, oh crap. I didn't not have no more, no more money left for groceries. I really did. And so then.

[00:20:14] Everybody was asked it was worth it. Yeah. And then I had to call a call, uh, call my parents. And can you send me like a hundred dollars for some groceries? And they're like, what happened? Uh,

[00:20:29] Charlie: nothing at all. I would never do such a thing

[00:20:36] Rob: as we're talking about that budgeting. I think I do think one of the things we should touch on here is automating it, right?

[00:20:42] If you can, and there's two sides to that coin. Obviously, if you audit. You know, the payments going in, they don't see it. And they just, they just get used to money coming in. If they don't see that it's tied to the work, but when you automate it, when they, uh, you know, as far as their savings and investing, it can make it a lot easier.

[00:21:01]

[00:21:01] Charlie: Another technique is,, when you're, I don't know what age is appropriate, maybe 12, you know, when they can first start understanding stock ownership, as we're driving down the road, I would talk to my daughter, Hey, , you can own part of Walmart, , Hey, we go to Disney, you can own part of it.

[00:21:16] And what are you talking about? So then you go, Hey, I'm going to buy you a, a piece of a stock. You can actually buy single stock, stockpile.com. We should get paid for all our advertising today, by the way. But I stockpile dot copy, print out a, um, a certificate and frame it.

[00:21:30] Put other walls, say you own a piece of Disney. , that's great learning. Now, once you learn that lesson, then tell them we don't want to want to own just one company that we want to talk about. Mutual funds, ETFs, et cetera. But the lesson of ownership is good. Just be careful, you know, don't make, don't make a bunch of speculators out of your children at age 15.

[00:21:50] Ben: Just going to say, I need, I need a piece of paper like that for my Bitcoin. Um, so that it makes me feel like I own something other

[00:21:58] Charlie: a second. I thought you had coins. You don't have coins.

[00:22:02] Ben: Oh man. Here I go. Now we'll talk off the, off on this one. Just actual coin, the recording. Okay. I hate to break to you.

[00:22:10] There's nothing there. I don't have a gun.

[00:22:13] Charlie: Oh, this is. Yep. We're gonna have another, have another podcast on the Bitcoin. Uh,

[00:22:19] Rob: another one. Well, they should just go and look at what was it? You can't hide 7, 7, 7, 7. So Bitcoin, Jesus and Jesus.

[00:22:27] Charlie: That's called. I call it. You called that. So

[00:22:32] Rob: let's talk, speaking to the peak and the bottom.

[00:22:34] Can we, should we, should we do that, that little. Or save that for like, which graph you're talking about. Oh, the little a game trying

[00:22:42] Charlie: to time. That's right. So, so that was one of the lessons here for, for all of us, but especially as a young person starting out, it's not about timing the market. And this was our first point of compound interest, , Einstein said.

[00:22:57] Eighth wonder of the world compound interest. So it's not about timing getting in, getting out of the market. You know, it's about putting your money in there, saving it, and then, uh, investing wisely of course, but not trying to run for the Hills when things get scary. So we've got a little game we're gonna play on, uh, for our YouTube folks here.

[00:23:16] And this is personal finance club.com. You can, uh, Google, uh, timing the stock market game. And if several leads will pop up, so here's what we're going to do to put it

[00:23:27] Rob: in the show notes.

[00:23:28] Ben: And if you get, yeah, and if you can time the market, if you can beat this, if you beat us. Yeah.

[00:23:33] Charlie: We're going to get into today.

[00:23:34] . If you can beat this game, then send it in and let us know that it's possible. So. One Ben coin, we're going to hit play. And then Ben is going to try to time the market. So what's, we don't know it's going to be 10 years of the market and it's going to go up and it's going to go down.

[00:23:50] We don't know which 10 years. Right. But Ben's going to, what's your strategy, Ben, are you going to sell high and try to sell high buy low? Cause , sometimes the market gets too high. It's overvalued and you just want to sell, right. That's right.

[00:24:00] Ben: Yeah. If it goes up too much, I'm Def I'm definitely gonna sell.

[00:24:03] Um, you know, I don't want to just sit there while

[00:24:05] Charlie: let's go. Okay. That sounds good. So then we're going to compare Benz. With a buy and hold strategy for that 10 years. So, okay. Now remember, it's going to start off. First thing you got to do is you're going to be buying right off the bat. So if you want me to sell, you got to see it pretty quick.

[00:24:21] So here we get to say pretty quick. Okay. All right. So the market is going, oh wow. It just jumped up 10% going up like crazy 40% sell, sell, sell, sell. That's right. That's pretty high. And that's scary. That's

[00:24:32] Ben: scary. Oh no, it's still going. It's going through.

[00:24:35] Charlie: Oh, tell me when

[00:24:37] Ben: should I buy?

[00:24:37] Charlie: I'll know. Bye bye.

[00:24:39] Okay, we're going back in the market then I got to go back

[00:24:41] Ben: in with you. I couldn't stand it. All right. All right. Now I'm definitely waiting. Okay. It's going down a little bit. Yeah. All right.

[00:24:47] Charlie: Sell, sell, sell. Okay. That's scary. You're right. That's very

[00:24:50] Ben: scary. All right. All right. Bye-bye bye. I'm getting it's about to, I, I have a feeling right now as soon as it's about to spike.

[00:24:57] Oh, no. Yeah. Oh no. It's. You're struggling. You're in the market. How much longer we got you're in the main cell. So am I, but yes, I sold. All right. All right, now. Bye. Bye. Yep, let's go. And I think it's about to go. It's very scary, man. Come on. I need, I need some help here. I

[00:25:16] gave

[00:25:16] Charlie: him the 200 day moving average right here.

[00:25:18] Did not use that.

[00:25:20] Ben: Oh my gosh. I didn't even realize that's what that was. Or you could have used

[00:25:24] Charlie: the. Well, I mean, I think I've looked at this graph. I'm like, man, you did terrible. I was going to try to find something positive, but you did terrible. Your investment grew from October 21st, 1996 to 2006. Hey, that was a tough time.

[00:25:39] I was looking at this skill market. I was looking at this timeframe going, goodness. That is that's like two or three years. That's the beginning of my investment Rob year two. Right? We're the same age, right? Yup. Right? Yup. That's the beginning of our investment life right there. It was terrible. Anyway. So Ben, let's see how you did from October 96, doc Tober, 2006.

[00:25:57] Your investment grew your $10,000 investment grew to $17,000 almost while a buy and hold strategy netted $22,200 or thereabouts, you lost $5,260, you know, versus the market annualized told me, oh yeah, you did terrible. The market grew 8.3% per year. Your investments Ben grew 5.4% per year because. You, uh, got a little scared sometimes and you thought the market was overvalued and I thought you were going to nail it because I was like, oh, you sold and you're going to, and the market's going down and then, but you just don't know.

[00:26:35] I

[00:26:36] Ben: think I missed the buy

[00:26:37] Charlie: side. Yeah. Anyway,

[00:26:39] Rob: it's so funny. Cause that's exactly, even though you didn't have any news, you know, news media in your ear there, or any pandemics or anything, you know, you're still obviously underperforming. So that in the mix, and that's exactly what you see for a lot of investors who don't have the discipline and

[00:26:58] Ben: well, that first couple of years it went up, so it was up by 20, 30%.

[00:27:02] And so I was like, there's no way I can keep going at that pace. And then sure enough, as soon as I sold it kept going. Yeah. Double. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:10] Charlie: Great. Okay. Well, all right. All right. Nice, nice work then tumbled me. That's

[00:27:14] Ben: humbled.

[00:27:16] Charlie: So let's shift gears a little bit because it's so important to talk about what you mentioned earlier, Rob, the, how do parents save for their children , and kids are, you know, young adults.

[00:27:25] How do they save? We've had a lot of parents lately go. I want to get my, my kids started off on the right foot. What's the best way to do it. What's the best account. And I'll okay. Do you all? Yeah.

[00:27:38] Rob: Um, I, I've got the three ways kind of that we we've talked about. Uh, here, you've got of course joint bank accounts that you can do, just like you have with your spouse, with your spouse there, you've got your custodial accounts, which is the UTMA, which we'll get into.

[00:27:55] And then you have w I kind of just, the first salvo, I guess, is the prepaid debit card. If you just want to go out, get, you know, uh, get a debit card that you just. Fun. Whenever your child runs out of money, that's one way to do it. That's probably the first option. People who don't aren't comfortable opening up a bank account or custodial account.

[00:28:17] .

[00:28:17] Yeah. Ben,

[00:28:18] Charlie: what do you think

[00:28:19] Ben: I wish I had, I'd got to do earlier and just like we showed with the compound interest is actually get to save and invest. I mean, my first, my first account was just a custodial savings account at the bank and, uh, or a joint account.

[00:28:32] And that, that was a great place to start saving, just saving my money. But I think, um, really, I would love to have gotten investing early. And like we saw on that and hold and saving for the long-term and the way to do that, I know we've talked about it, the custodial, uh, UTMA accounts, but also the, the custodial Roth IRA.

[00:28:52] Um, Charlie, I think you're actually going through that right now for, for your daughter. Yeah.

[00:28:57] Charlie: I printed out the application and had some other parents asking me about it. Cause Rob, you nailed a couple of great strategies for just savings and spending and we could even get into how to start credit for your kids.

[00:29:09] But I think that's probably easy to put off until 18 early twenties, maybe. Um, but as far as investing and saving, if you want to start that, uh, for your, for your kids, um, , I did just like what you said, Rob? I took my daughter's, uh, sounds terrible. I took her Christmas money. I mean, I, how do I say this?

[00:29:30] Uh, in fact I've got a reputation. All the family. Yeah, there we go. I helped her. I helped her. Thank you. I was, I was really struggling there because everybody in my family was like, do not give your birthday money to your dad. Okay. But my daughter did part with some birthday and Christmas money and I invested before.

[00:29:48] And a joint brokerage account. And so now what I'm going to do is I'm just going to take equivalent cash and start her a custodial Roth. . Now custodial, anything Artemis , uh, custard a Roth becomes the property of the child at the age of majority, which is either 18 or 21, depending on. So it's going to become your, your kids. So just get over that part, whereas a five to nine doesn't ever have to become the property of your child.

[00:30:13] So there's some flexibility there, but in this case, we want our kids to have this. I want my daughter to have her birthday money, Christmas money back. I'm finally going to give it back to her and, and yes, it has multiple. Thank you very much. A couple of times. We'll see. Anyway, up until September of this, put it in there yet.

[00:30:30] Anyway. Um, so I'm going to do a custodial Roth. Now here's a couple of nuts and bolts about the custodial Roth. How young can you do this Schwab, , that's who we're working with. That's up for not the application. I called them. I said, Hey, is there an age limit? You know, Nope, no age limit. Now your custodian, sorry for using the same type of language.

[00:30:47] Let me clarify that. Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, who. They are not going to be the police of your custodial Roth. They do not care how old your kid is for them. You know, as far as, especially Schwab. I know that for sure. They're not going to ask. I mean, you're going to put it on the application, but they're not the police of that.

[00:31:02] They're just going to open the custody to a custodial account. They're going to do it now. Here's the rules your, your child has to make. So that's what

[00:31:11] Rob: I was just about to say, Charlie. So I am the police on this, so

[00:31:14] yeah,

[00:31:14] Charlie: you're the police.

[00:31:15] Rob: So now your child, you're not, you're not taking any birthday money and putting it around.

[00:31:19] No, no, no, no money she's earned.

[00:31:20] Charlie: She has to earn money. So my dog, so yeah, thanks for that clarification, Rob, because what I was actually doing is, was breaking the rules. My daughter does earn money so she can contribute now to a Roth. And in anybody, any child can earn money. Here's the sticky wicket. How do I prove if I get.

[00:31:38] Does my child have to file a tax return. Do they have to get a W2? What if they're mowing grass? They're not going to get a W2. So, if they work for a restaurant, they're going to get a W2. , if they work for someone else, they might get a 10 99.

[00:31:49] If they don't then just have records of that income, create a log, you know, making notes of it, uh, show bank accounts or receipts or deposits or something, , because your child, even though they make money, they may not have to file the tax return depending on how much they make. So those are the nuts and bolts of the custodial Roth.

[00:32:08] The limit is right now, $6,000, uh, for our child, they have to make, you can put a hundred percent of their income in it, so they can only put 6,000 in it if they make 6,000. Does that make sense so far? Am I on track here? If

[00:32:23] Ben: they only make 3000, they can't put in 6,000, they can only put in, correct?

[00:32:26] Charlie: Correct. Earn income. .

[00:32:28] Awesome. Yeah. So , last thing I'll say on just savings accounts is the utmost are pretty good. Um, but I th I think depending on the tax laws and things like that, sometimes they lose some of their advanced. So, but, but they're okay. I mean, they're all right.

[00:32:43] I'm not a huge fan of personally. I'd rather do the Roth, but everybody's circumstances are a little different. So,

[00:32:49] Rob: so I've got, um, I, my personal, I'm just going to disagree with disagree there. Charlie, I'll let it out. So. Yep. I think it's important to give them the UTMA is a little bit for, you know, some clients that are maybe a little bit higher or net worth, and it's a uniform transfers to minors, act it expounds upon the UGME, which is, was a little bit older it's uniform gift to minors act where that I think was only securities.

[00:33:16] The UTMA can be money, , real estate, fine art, all of that. If the account allows it obviously, but, but that's covered under the act and. And you're deaf in your example of the birthday money. I love UTMs for that example, because that's a, that expands on the gift act, right? So if there's a gift, that's where you can put that that's a great place for a gift and a TIG to get invested in the market or whatever you want to do with it.

[00:33:42] But that's obviously what we, uh, most of the time advice for longer-term assets, you're going to invest in the market and the UTMA does that fidelity Schwab I'm sure. Almost everyone does that. So that that's kind of where we get it. To, uh, the difference between if it's earning income than a Roth IRA for the kid is great.

[00:34:01] If it's not earned income, then maybe a UTMA works for

[00:34:06] Charlie: no, that's a great point. And I like the point you made too about watching out for, if you think you might get some student aid, uh, then, then those are going to count against you. That's why the 5 29 is really a powerful cause it, it doesn't do that, but.

[00:34:20] Ben: Yeah, and you can give $15,000 a year right now without filing a gift tax return. So if you were going to give money to. Know, that's just something to keep in mind. , the UTMA I think that for the majority of states, I believe it is 21. When the, when the custodian sturdy in ship ins custodial ship ends,

[00:34:40] Rob: uh, Colorado in Tennessee, at least it is.

[00:34:42] Ben: Yeah. Yeah. So. You know when w and we've experienced this with some of our clients, as soon as they turn that age. Well, that money is theirs.

[00:34:50] Rob: That's a good point. And I think it's important. Define some of these terms. So you, if you give them money or if you're a parent and you give your kids some money, that's going to go into a UTMA. You are the donor, you can name a custodian. Usually it's the, still the parent, that's just a custodian and you have a fiduciary duty.

[00:35:08] We've talked all about fiduciaries. If you've heard any of our other podcasts, you have a fiduciary duty to your kid in that scenario. So you have to do what's best for them in managing that investment, which means you can't take any of it.

[00:35:21] Ben: That's right. You can't invest in meme stocks, right? I guess you could.

[00:35:28] Rob: And part of that UTMA though, as far as tax wise is when it does become there, let's say at 21 who is then out on their own is they're taxed on the, any kind of capital gains on that. They're, they're taxed at their rate, not on their parents.

[00:35:43] Yeah. If I'm saying that that's a good

[00:35:45] Charlie: point. Yeah. Taxes and Artemis is, is, uh, not an easy subject. It confounds me continuously.

[00:35:54] Rob: The other part, I think that's important about Roth. IRAs is all the advantages that we've talked about. Roth IRAs, and we maybe do another podcast on that. Let us know, hit me up at Robert, uh, leading edge planning.com, but the Roth IRA.

[00:36:12] Are in a retirement account. However, when you contribute money to them, you can always take that money out because you've already been taxed on it without any penalties, any fees, any taxes. So you can take a take out your contribution amount and that's an important distinction. So some people might say, oh, Roth IRA.

[00:36:30] Well, my kid's 10. He doesn't get to see that until he's 59 and a half. Well, if something happens and he needs. He can take out the mountain. He's contributed now not the part he has earned or it's made, right? Not the part that, um, is getting pounding and gains. Thank you, Ben. Not

[00:36:48] Charlie: the kids call it these days.

[00:36:52] Rob:

[00:36:52] Yeah. Not the gaze. You, if you take out the games, then you're penalized and taxed on the gain. So anyways, I think that's a great thing that a lot of people don't understand is, oh, well, they can actually, they need to buy a car or whatever they can access.

[00:37:05] Yeah. That was contributed now, is that, why is that? May not be wise,

[00:37:09] Charlie: but they could do it. It's like an emergency emergency fund emergency, super remote. And

[00:37:15] Ben: don't buy a new car. Yeah, there we go. Don't

[00:37:18] Charlie: bind, you know, we're coming upon the baby coming up on the end here, but what, what final thoughts?

[00:37:22] You know, Ben, you've got some techniques as a young, young guy, young, newer investor. You've got something you're passionate about. I think you were talking about you'd liked about new cars or something.

[00:37:32] Ben: Oh man. Yeah. I love buying. Uh, I see these fancy, , Mercedes and I'm actually, I'm more of a truck guy, we were admiring a nice Dodge truck the other day.

[00:37:42] Man, I need that. Oh, it's $120,000. Nevermind, but no bug. Yeah. Oh yeah. The T-Rex yeah, the thing is awesome. I'm sure it's always been this way, but we see, we, we see social media that we see our friends with w you know, maybe nice cars we see are, are the people that we look up to with nice cars.

[00:38:01] Um, and we, it's really easy to fall into the trap of obviously wanting that, um, you know, you go to a dealership to get a new car, and they're going to talk you into, instead of maybe buying this used car one. Pay monthly and you can get this nice new car and, uh, and take out a loan for it. And so I would just say, you know, it's not always the best idea just to go and buy a new car.

[00:38:22] It is a, it is a wealth killer. Is that what we put on the sheet there? Charlie? But so, so that's one of the things, you know, don't fall into that temptation. Don't feel like you need to keep up with anybody. Um, number two, I would say is, um, you know, I'm, I'm currently renting property instead of, uh, I don't, I don't own a home right now and I think that's perfectly fine.

[00:38:42] Um, if you look at, if you look at some of the math, we can get into it, the pros and cons, but, um, don't feel like you need to go and just buy a house, right. When you graduate or right as your, uh, your, you know, your, your. You're out in the workforce. Um, you know, there that you may not, it may not actually be, uh, be thrown away money renting, which we hear a lot.

[00:39:02] And then the last one I know we talked about automating your, um, your savings. When you're setting a budget, just take 10, 20, 30 minutes to set a budget you don't have to stick to it, you know, by the penny, by penny, but make sure you have at least a savings goal , you can do it on an app. You can do it right now. Take out your phone and set a savings. I have a transfer and money into my savings account. Every, every few days it just transfers money into the. That has helped me tremendously with saving. I don't like to look at my, my account statements very often.

[00:39:31] I don't like to look at what I'm spending my money on, which is not, not necessarily a great thing, but I have a budget budgeted out where I know I'm meeting my savings. And I'm able to, um, to, you know, buy the things that I need, um, by doing that. So that has been really helpful to me. Those are the things that I'm passionate about.

[00:39:48] Charlie: I love it. Well, put you get off my pedestal. Drop the mic box. Yeah. Oh, total drop. That that's expensive. Rob, what do you got, man?

[00:40:00] Rob: That's all I got really? He nailed it. We've talked. Uh, we talked quite a bit. They did talk to mentality the use of money, tangible. The savings or automation, the three different ways to joint custodial and prepaid debit card that mothers, and obviously Roth IRAs.

[00:40:16] Charlie, what do you got anything to wrap it up? Oh boy,

[00:40:18] Charlie: this is a good one. I just love what Ben said, you know, set goals that are important to you. Not somebody else. We see so many people with this FOMO, right. And they're missing out. They feel like they're missing out, but it's like take the time as a young person to go.

[00:40:33] What do I want? And go after that. If you don't ever do that, then you're going to be constantly trying to meet a goal or benchmark that's moving on. You constantly and you will drive yourself crazy. I hope that makes sense to people, a lot of people say, it's know your values. That's a little bit vague and maybe, uh, a platitude of sorts, but know what's important to you and then write it down.

[00:40:59] And then set those goals because it's the L keeping up with the Joneses and we just see so many people through the whole life chasing this unattainable money goal. And then sometimes they get it and guess what? They're disappointed because it wasn't what they really wanted all along.

[00:41:17] So know what you want, know what's important to you and go through. That's it.

[00:41:21] Ben: I've just, I've just, I love that. That that's such a good point. He made me think of one more, one more thing that I find important right now. Um, we're in Tennessee just recently, uh, passed the, uh, the sports gambling act. I don't know what it's called, but you can now gamble on sports.

[00:41:38] And it's very tempting. If you can do it through an app on your phone and it tells you that it has pretty, uh, you know, graphics and everything that pop up when you win and they say you can win tons of money. And, um, you know, every day they say, they say, Um, and I think it's the same with some of the Robin hood stuff that you see on commercials.

[00:42:00] Um, I was seeing, I saw a Coinbase commercial the other day, and it's like, you know, you go and buy doge coin. It was literally a thing about dose going and how it was started as a joke, but you can go and invest in it and coordinate. So I would just say stick to the, you know, have your, have your long-term money that you're saving and don't, don't try and gamble it away on literally gambling or, um, these meme stocks trying to try to win it all on, uh, you know, following people on Reddit or in these Twitter groups or whatever it is.

[00:42:29] Um, you know, that will cause more stress in the long run. Most likely you're going to lose money. You're not going to be able to beat the market. We just, I'm, I'm an expert investor, as we all know. And I, I just lost to the game. So, I mean, right there, you can't beat the market. Um, no, but, um, I really think like as a young person, especially creating those habits and not falling into this trap of trying to, um, gamble your money away and really invest in investing is not gambling and, and really learning about that and sticking to that.

[00:42:59] I

[00:42:59] Rob: love it. Nice. That's it. All right. I've got the two quotes to wrap it up. We're not a fan of everything Dave Ramsey says, but this one I am. You've got to tell your money what to do, or it will leave. They Ramsay. If we command our wealth, we shall be rich and free. If our wealth commands us, we are poor indeed.

[00:43:17] By Edmund Burke, we've arrived at our final destination. Let us be the first to welcome you to the end of flight eight. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast. If you liked what you heard, please hit that subscribe button and leave a review so we can reach more people. If you have any questions or you'd like to, uh, anything answered on the show, she does email info@leadingedgeplanning.com or robert@leadingedgeplanning.com.

[00:43:42] And as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who don't know where they are going. So plan accordingly. Thanks for listening. Take care.

[00:43:52] Voice Actor: Thank you for listening to the pilot money guys podcast. It has been our pleasure to share some information with you today. Give us a call to discuss absolutely any investment question. You may have click on the subscribe button below to be notified when new episodes become available. Visit leading edge planning.com to learn more.

[00:44:11] Take care.

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[00:44:33] And its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. The information provided is for educational and informational purposes only, and does not constitute investment advice and should not be relied on as such. It should not be considered a solicitation to buy or an offer to sell. It does not take into account any investors, particular investment objectives, strategies, tax status, or investment horizon.

[00:44:56] You should consult your attorney or tax advisor. The views expressed in this commentary are subject to change based on market and other conditions. These documents may contain certain statements that may be deemed forward-thinking statements. Please note that any such statements are not guarantees of any future performance and actual results or developments may differ materially from those.

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Categories
Pilot Money Guys

Flight #17: New Tax Changes

Pilot Money Guys:

New Tax Changes

In this episode of the Pilot Money Guys, we are joined by the Professor, Kevin Gormley CPA & CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER, to discuss the latest proposed tax changes.

Although these are subject to change, there are things that you need to know to be prepared. Some changes we discuss:

1. Capital Gains tax increases.
2. Roth Conversion changes
3. Child Tax Credit Changes

We would love to discuss these tax changes with you! If you have any questions for us, please send them to info@leadingedgeplanning.com. Or visit LeadingEdgePlanning.com to schedule a 1-hour consultation.

As always, thank you for listening! 
 
 

 

 

 

Podcast Transcription:

 we interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to bring you this ad hoc special edition charter flight 16.5. Of the pilot money guys, where we cover some airline news and of course, a financial topic we're going to talk today, especially about the tax proposals. Uh, in 2021, we aim to educate and bring some lighthearted financial fund dear day.

 

I'm your host, Rob Eckland, your flight crew today is the professor. Of course, we need a CPA to talk about this stuff. Certified financial planner, Kevin Gormley. Hello, Gormley here. And of course our very own Mr. Cabell, the Bendeka is in welcome, Ben. Thank you. Good to be here. Also present. Yes. Present today.

We're going to cover. The potential tax changes coming right around the corner. We're recording this just to kind of give you a buffer here. So if we make any mistakes, this is the 24th of September, 2021. All of that, we're going to talk about the tax proposals, at least is all subject, subject to change.

It's still going through Congress and who knows what could happen. So this is just a kind of a pre cursor of what could come. Things can change, but some of this is likely to pass. Enough of that. Let's jump into some aviation news. I've got the first one we're talking about the air force, KC wide bridge tanker, which is going to print.

Yeah, it's another tanker. I know. We thought we had enough of those with the KC 46, all you, uh, air refueling geeks like myself out there. Uh, but the KC tens going away. And they really don't have much to replace it with. So they're coming up with this, this next tanker Lockheed Martin has joined forces with Airbus and they're going to produce a Airbus three 30.

That's called the LMX T, which stands for the Lockheed Martin next tanker. And apparently it's going to be bigger, better, um, you know, batter than the KC 46, be able to go more places. And do kind of the stuff that the KC tin could do that the KC 1 35 could do at least that's my perception. It could go to more airfields because it's got a, you know, bigger wings and more useful load and all kinds of good stuff.

So kind of cool. Uh, for the case 10 folks out there, I was really questioning why they were getting rid of the KC 10 when the KC 46, wasn't all up to speed. Uh, and I could geek out about that for a long time, but I won't. Kevin and Ben, the professor with this, I can see glazed over luxury right now. Yes.

You raised your hand. I mean, how many kids, uh, you know, right now, or a 10, 12 years old and their dream is to fly a KC 10. I mean, probably, probably a lot of them. Right. Is that something that you dreamed of doing Rob when you work with. I turned to flying. I don't know, per se the KC tip, but you know, all of the impact I've had around the community here, at least one wants to fly KC 10 or they used to doing after seeing you fly there.

Right. You got to get some video footage of you flying it. I mean, oh yeah, for sure. That would be exciting to upload that. It's pretty good. Now that I'm retiring.

You think you can do a barrel roll gas station in this guy?

Absolutely. Okay. Let's get into the inspired. The next piece is inspiration for I've got my special copier. Failure's not an option in recognition of the first all civilian space flight and they did awesome. I think they landed. They went around the, the earth several times and the first civilian. It's baseline as far as I know, right?

Yeah. So can you say, uh, first civilian space flight, um, those other two civilian groups that went up, uh, they were, they were kind of in space, but this was the first time a craft orbited. The earth is that. I think so you're challenging. My, my, my, uh, this is not great as fuck, you know, headline says first all civilian crew goes to space.

I think those other crews had, uh, you know, military folks on. Right. Even though it was billionaires that grabbed all the headlines, you know, still the military folks doing the work. Oh yeah. We're going to make sure Ben puts that in the show, but. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Whatever the right answer is. We'll put it in there.

We'll find it and throw it in there. I did find out something interesting though about this. Maybe some, some drama about inspiration for. Which is that they had some toilet issues on the plane. This is a direct tweet from Elon Musk. Definitely need to upgrade toilets. We had some challenges with it on this flight.

Now, can you, I'm just trying to envision this right here. No low gravity, very low gravity. What that thing is, that's not sinking down there. I wonder what kind of issues they had this, you know, there's going to be some stuff floating around. Yeah. Yeah. It must've been pretty bad for that to become an issue, um, especially with it for some side effects in there, for sure.

Um, but Rob isn't that usually on a commercial aircraft, isn't the toilet, usually the most drama on any flight from what I've heard, uh, flushing, uh, paper towels and stuff like that and leaving it a mess I supposed to put down yeah. Smoking in the bathroom. It's. Just a, what would you call that? Something show?

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Lot of fun for all you, uh, airline passengers out there. Let's just get a couple of ground rules right now. If you're going to go, number two, you go to the back of the airplane. Don't don't come up to the front where the pilots are. Let's just go to the back. I have some calm first-class toilets are so nice.

Come on. Well, that's a good point. We know Southwest is all first class ban. Okay. Yeah, you guys get the nice, nice, comfortable seats. They're really contour. All right. We can cut that one out.

Gotcha. All right. What else? Anything else? Uh, for aviation news, you one. Did you have a top 10 list? You want to go over real quick? I can go through it really quick. If we want to go through this. It's I think it's a pretty good top 10 list that I think people will be interested in. Um, I sure was entertained.

So this one right here is the top 10 weirdest airplanes of all time. And, uh, I'll just burn through this really quick. Add some comments about these. The first one is the number 10 and it does look pretty weird. It's the Boeing X 48, which is currently under construction, has a 21 foot wingspan. And, um, it is being developed as an unmanned aerial vehicle.

So it's kind of a weird plane. Uh, next we got the, the Horten ho 2, 2, 9 airplane. This was a, uh, world war II German fighter bomber. Um, and it, it, it looks pretty futuristic. It looks like it's out of the Jetsons. Pretty cool. You got to, have you heard of. Uh, you know, I saw a picture that way back when I think it, it almost looks like something out of, you know, captain America, the crashes, you know, similar it does.

It's got a nice bubble in the front, you know, we'll have to do is let's put all these pictures. Well, yeah, we, we definitely will cause these are, these are great and they start to get more and more familiar here. The next one is the Airbus balloon. Making it on the list I knew beyond here, I wasn't sure where it's the 8300, 600 wide body aircraft.

Uh, and it is used to carry the aircraft parts and cargo, uh, that are either too large or arguably are awkwardly shaped and it came, uh, took it to maiden flight in 1994. Weird looking airplane. Honestly, one of my favorite looking airplanes, it kind of looks, it just looks like a beluga, but it looks ridiculous.

So, and they even paint it most of the time to smile to make you have to that thing go if you're not sure what the beluga is, look that up. That thing looks exactly like that. Um, number seven, super Guppy airport. Uh, yeah, I mean, come on. Like, uh, it's basically the original beluga, uh, came out in 1965, uh, and operated by NASA.

Loved that one. Um, let's see. Number six, the dream lifter. So this is the Boeing seven, the 7 47 dream lifter. Is that, is that sound right? It's a 235 feet long and a cruising speed of 474. 211 foot wingspan. Uh, number five, the flying pancake airplane. This one intrigued me the most when I saw that. Cause I did not know that this plane existed.

Uh, this was when did this come out? I think this came out in the thirties, I believe, but, uh, it looks like a giant stingray. Uh, it was used by the Navy. It's called the Vaught X five F U plane X F five-year. Uh, maximum speed of 550 miles per hour in maximum takeoff weight of 18,800 pounds. Quite impressive.

Nice. Pretty weird. All we needed one pilot as well, and it looks like that's an ugly airplane that looks like a crab. It really, it really does look like it's meant to fly. And now do not know. . All right. Uh, number four. Um, Callanan K seven airplane. This one, to me, it looks like it's out of star wars or star Trek or something. It is, uh, one of the it's also called the Russian flying fortress developed in 1930.

And um, had 11 members, 140 miles per hours. Its max flying speed could carry 120 passengers and 15,000 pounds of mail. Oh. Or 50,000 pounds of mail. So that one, yeah, it looks crazy as well. Uh, number three, the Northrop tacit blue airplane. Uh, it was developed by the us air force in 1982. And it was considered the best technology on the planet has a gross weight of 30,000 pounds and can fly 290.

Now that you guys are going to look that one up. That one's pretty interesting as well, that Russian, just to back up the, uh, so the dream lifter was made because of the Dreamliner. The parts were too big. And so they had to make those specimen special seven, 14. Aircraft to haul the parts, but that Russian flying fortress is something out of a, out of a movie.

For sure. Yeah. That one will definitely put this one on there, but you're going to have to look that one up.

Um, number two, the pregnant Guppy airplane. So I got a lot of guppies bigger. This one flew from 1962 to 1977 wide body cargo plane used by NASA to transport components of the Apollo moon program. Um, so very interesting playing there could a load capacity of 141,000 pounds and a max wind speed of a 320 miles per hour.

It does. It just looks like a big pregnant fish, I guess that's why they named it. That, uh, the spruce goose has comes into number one. I think this one, this one was coming and Howard Hughes, uh, uh, it's an all wood airplane built in. What does it only flew once in 1947 carried 700 passengers and it's the largest flying transport ever.

The wingspan was that LA was longer than a football field. The spruce goose was actually a flying boat and could hold up to 150,000 total pounds, uh, including two 30 ton in four Sherman tanks. Uh, also known as the flying lumberyard. And today is in the evergreen aviation museum in McMinnville, Oregon.

That's from McMinnville. Yeah. Beautiful. That Guppy, if you ever fly into El Paso, a lot of times you'll see that super Guppy, the NASA one. Oh, yeah. I've never actually seen this. Yeah. Yeah. The super well, is it the, I don't know why the color, right. It might be the pregnant Guppy. Yeah. But it can, I think it can carry T 30 eights in it, which is they have four or five top gun, top gun fans out there.

 Nice. Where did you get that top 10 list? I got that top 10 list from arrow corner.com. We'll link to it in the show notes. Yeah, absolutely. Check it out. . . , I mean, that was super great. Let's give them even something more exciting, right? Yes. Taxes tax. Why calming. That's why we got the man, the myth, the legend, Kevin, the professor, the professor. All right. These tax changes are common.

Kevin, you want to walk us through some of this stuff? Yes. So I'll tell you this, Rob, when, uh, whenever we hear about tax changes coming and were doing tax returns, where a CPA or where a tax professional, uh, immediately we try to disregard because we have last year's tax return. In our mind, we have this year's, uh, what's happening with taxes.

And then we hear about all these. Projected taxes that are coming. And most of the time they don't come true. So usually, uh, we're very skeptical or, or maybe we just. We just wait and see what's past. But you know, this time around, uh, especially in the world of social media, things happening so fast, a number of clients have actually mentioned that they know tax changes might be coming.

So really that's really, the focus here is to discuss what, what, what probably will happen, what could happen. And also some of the things that a lot of people have heard are going to happen, which are really bad, which probably are not going to happen, Rob. Yeah. Well, fantastic. So the first one. I think a lot is on a lot of people's minds.

There's just the regular tax rate. The marginal tax rate is increasing from 37% up to 39.6%. Right. And that's for married, filing jointly folks above $450,000. So the, the 400,000 and the four 50, um, you know, one of the things that I do, like, uh, like might be the wrong word, but, uh, that at least I'm relieved with Rob is that they are focused more on people that make more than 401,000, if you're single and four 50 and $1, if you're.

$450,001. That is, but the issue that, that I find is that people that make more than that amount of money still don't feel rich, still don't consider themselves rich. So if you're in that, uh, area where you're above 400 or four 50, uh, it still can be painful, but you're right. For the most of the pilots that we work with, um, you know, they, they do get around the 400, 4 50 mark when they're captain.

But for most people, uh, the, uh, tax changes will not affect them, which is great news. And even if you did make $450,000, $450,001 that 39.6% is only taxed on that $1. That's exactly right. Clarify that, uh, it's only the amount over $450,000, uh, that, that applies to let's kick it off. Sorry. Kicking off is not the right word.

Let's talk about capital gains rates, which is right after the marginal tax rate. A lot of people start thinking about the maximum capital gain rate is going to move from 20% to 25%. Yep. So the rumors were out there, Rob, that it was going to go to 39.6% for people that made more than a million dollars.

Um, which, uh, you know, again, we, we have a few people that make more than a million dollars of income. Uh, most, most of the tax that we're talking about is income. It's not really wealth or where the rich, uh, and I used the rich in quotes. So that's right. Um, if you make more than again, 400,000 or four 50, Uh, then your capital gains will be taxed at 2,500.

Yeah, that four hundreds for the single filers and the four 50 is for married filing jointly, just to make sure everyone knows that that's, that's the amount you're we're talking about for the capital gains. Ben, I got something I've heard a rumor going around that they are planning to tax unrealized capital gains.

Is there any truth to that in this plan so far? All right, Ben. Um, did you see that on, uh, one of your Snapchat? Um, you mean my tic-tac yeah, I saw it on. Yeah. So, so I think that, I mean, that's a good point, you know? The people will ask us well, should I hurry up and sell my investments and get my capital gains?

Um, so that's called realized capital gains when you realize it is when you sell it. So if they ever taxed unrealized capital gains, uh, I'm not going to say something like I would eat my hat or something like that, cause, or leave the country because I don't feel like eating the hat or leaving the country, but that would be, that would be really hard to tax unrealized, capital gains.

Um, But, uh, who knows the creativity of the Congress. It's always possible Ben, but I've, I've not heard that. Okay, good. I, I, you know, I, I definitely don't want that to happen, but I've been hearing those rumors and I honestly just wanted to dispel that because I have, I feel like that is kind of going around, but interesting.

The other, the other thing with this capital gains is, um, you know, most of the tax laws, as far as I can tell. Uh, with this legislation, it can bounce back and forth is my understanding, you know, way more about this than I do Kevin, but it, most of the time, at least on this legislation will go into effect one January, 2022.

However, this is one piece that may be backdated, I guess, to the time, uh, that the legislature. It was proposed, which was be September 30th, 2021. So you wouldn't even be, even if you sold right now, in theory, if that holds which it may not may or may not, you know, you, you wouldn't be able to get around that anyways.

Any thoughts on that? Yeah, Rob. So, you know, when we say that people might not make 400,000 or whatever the figures are, sometimes people will sell a second home or a rental home and they will be pushed up into these high, you know, people can make $800,000 in a year because they make a problem. Five $600,000 on a home.

That's that's happening now. So yeah, the, the strategy a couple of weeks ago, might've been to hurry up and sell it, but, but you know, again, that's really hard to do so, but there is, uh, there is a date right now, which the Congress has says said, if you sell after this date, you will still get hit with the higher capital gains.

So you're absolutely correct. So any capital gains after September 14th, 2021 may be taxed at a higher. Fantastic. That's that's big. That's big to know that. That's interesting. Um, moving along here, we've got the 3% surtax and for all of our individuals out there making more than $5 million a year, and what we used to call Majaila modified, adjusted gross income.

You're going to be taxed at whatever you make over to the 5 million of 3%. Is that right? Did I say that right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's have some fun here since none of us make over 5 million, no anyone that makes over 5 million of income per year. But if you take, if you take the 39.6, add the 3% and you live in the state of California, well, then your tax rate would be 59 points.

59.7. So you'd be sending in a, almost 60% of your money to the local and federal government. And that's the reason why, w what was that golfers name? The left-handed golfer that left the state of California. Oh, Phil was that Phil. Phil. So Phil left, Phil Mickelson left California. Yeah, he left because, uh, because he didn't want to pay those high tax rates and some people, uh, really hammered them on social media.

But, uh, can you imagine if you're someone like him making 10, $20 million a year and now all of a sudden you get to keep 40% and you get to be told you're not paying your fair share. I'm sure. Yeah. That's great. And how he got to that is the 39.6%. You know, if you're over the forfeit. Plus a 3.8 net investment income tax.

That's the knit that we that's, that's been around for a while. Plus the 3% surtax that gets you to 46.4 and then the California state tax is 30.3 that's 59.7%. That's a lot of tax, but you're making a lot of money. Uh I'll I'll just drop it. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're rich. That's a lot. I'm joking by the way.

That's sarcasm. So don't get mad at me if you're, if you're making that money. Um, that's good stuff. We got the, uh, now we got the creation of a cap on the maximum amount of taxpayers, QBI deduction. And if you don't know what QBI is, it means it doesn't matter to you. So don't worry about it. But a qualified business income is.

Capped at the maximum deduction for that would be for joint filers, 500,000 single file or your 400,000 and a trust in the states. 10,000. Okay. Let's get on with the, whatever was been really talking about, at least in our circles is the disappearing, the disappearance of the backdoor Roth and the mega backdoor Roth.

Kevin, this is right up your alley. Take it away. Yeah. So those of you that have had it on two times speed, uh, so far that's okay. But, but slow it down now to maybe 1.25. And, uh, so the Capitol, or excuse me, the Roth conversions. I mean, that, that's a huge part of what we do as financial planners. Uh, people in our income thresholds do is they either, uh, do the backdoor Roth, um, or some people even Rob, they put money into their 401k as an after-tax and they do the mega backdoor Roth.

Uh, if you have after tax money, going into IRAs now going forward, uh, you can no longer convert those dollars. So I don't know exactly how that's going to work, but it basically takes away the backdoor. Uh, for people, and this is really important for people that maybe are, are married, filing jointly around the 1 98 to $200,000, because there might be some strategies here to allow you to put money into a Roth as opposed to a backdoor Roth.

Yeah. And this is one of those things. If you're using that strategy and talk to your financial advisor, call Ben Dickinson, right? Right. And ask him about this, but, uh, it's one of those things that if you're going to use that strategy, think about doing it this year, because it's, you can still do it in 2021, but again, January 1st, 2022, you won't be able to do that.

Backdoor Roth anymore is, is at least proposed right now. Again could change, but that's on the that's on the table.

, along with that, is there any changes that people need to take right now that are pretax going, doing the back door? Is there anything to think about for next year specific? Well, uh, for people that like that are near those income thresholds where you can't do the.

Contribution anymore. Um, maybe they should just go ahead and back. Do the backdoor Roth in 2021, because once, uh, you know, usually in 2022, we do 2021 taxes and we realize you made too much. So in that case, you wouldn't be able to do it anymore. So we really want to talk to those people that are in the income thresholds that maybe are doing the Roth contribution direct.

So that's, that's kind of the Roth and the mega backdoor Roth, which not a lot of people. Access to, uh, or I should say, not as many as we'd like, and that's again, just after tax dollars, going into your 401k that you can put into reach that 58,000, um, mark, if you will, if you're on the field, the only reason I'm happy Rob about this is I don't have to explain it anymore because it really makes no sense.

It really makes no sense to call it. I think we've we've, we've had a lot of people will ask us if it was even legal, uh, or what we were doing. Very confused, a few people, but now very common thing now let's go away. And one of the other things is important about since we're talking about IRAs, is there think about capping how much you can actually have in one of those, uh, accounts, retirement accounts before.

Uh, you can't contribute anymore. And the magic number there is $10 million, which sounds like, you know, a lot of money and not, we won't have a lot of folks right now hit that, but in the future, that's definitely a mark that quite a few people I think can hit. Well, it's just inflation continues. If inflation continues, we can all have $10 million IRAs.

All right. That's very sarcastic and mean. Sorry. Um, so, so you know, this is, uh, I think Thiel is the guy's name, who was the, uh, hedge fund person who had a, uh, and I forget the number bank five, five. I was gonna say the B.

So, so this, this, uh, you know, a lot of people might not think this affects them, but the whole idea of, uh, IRA, uh, limitations is a big part of the proposed changes. So, uh, if you have more than $10 million in an IRA, you have to take an RMD required, minimum distribution, a 50% of the amount over 10 million.

And I think over 20 million, it goes up even to a hundred percent maybe. My understanding is if it's in a Roth you have to take anything over 20 million out. So Peter, Teal's going to have to take over $4 billion and then, you know, then it goes into that above 10 million, 50%.

So. Yeah. So, so the, uh, so the thought process here, just to make sure that everybody understands the punishing of the rich, uh, idea here is we're going to raise taxes on the people that are quote unquote real. We're no longer going to let them defer the money into IRAs and build up big IRAs. We're going to tax them.

And this actually generates tax revenue for the next 10 years. Um, and then the third thing is if they decide to put it in capital, uh, put it in taxable accounts and get capital gains, we're going to tax that at a higher rate too. It's sort of the trifecta of, uh, going after the rich in, in air quotes.

Once again. Yeah, absolutely. And to think about it too, and not everyone can do this and it's not going to affect, obviously it's going to affect very few people percentage wise. But if you are in that, that, uh, situation where you're taking required minimum distributions and you are very, you know, you're in the rich, like you say, income category, Kevin, then think about it this year.

You know, you're at a 37% income tax rate this year when you're taking those required minimum distributions. Again. If you're in that tax bracket next year, you're going to have the 39.6% rate. If the all, again, caveat, if all this goes through and then you'll have another, you could have another surtax of 3%.

So you're up at 42.6% and that's before state taxes, that's a 5.6 negative rate arbitrage between 2021 and 2022. Meaning just the difference. If you wait between 21. And 22 is 5.6%. That's quite a bit if you're up there. Yeah. And Rob, the other part, I mentioned, uh, that the IRAs, uh, the laws have changed, uh, or they will change.

Uh, we think the, all the self-directed IRAs and all the people that had non-liquid companies, they start a company, they stick the company in an IRA. All of that stuff is, uh, is probably going to be nixed. So, uh, we get questions all the time. Hey, can I invest in a rental property with my IRA? And the answer is.

You could, but I wouldn't do it because the self-directed IRA is a PETA. And so I would not recommend it, but, uh, that looks like that that's going to be going away. Great point. That's important for a lot of folks out there that are, yeah. I feel like that's been a kind of a viral topic recently. A lot of people have been asking about that, I guess, with the housing market and people being able to do more, uh, research and have more time on their hands.

But yeah. Probably a good thing in the end of that, that one's getting knocked away. Yeah. Potentially, potentially getting he hasn't knocked away. The other part too, you know, this whole thing is the space. We're basically going to have the current estate and gift tax exemption. Right now it's 11.7 million.

And it's going to be replaced with an exemption of proxy, half that around a 6 million per person, you know, that's, uh, the index for inflation. But, yeah. So if you, if you, if you pass and you're trying to give away more than the estate and gift tax exemption of 6 million, you'll be, is that right? My understanding still remains the same at 40% is the tax rate of, of, uh, of money on that.

But, uh, it's going to be lowered to 6 million. So if you're, if you have quite a bit of money out there and you pass away giving it, passing it along to errors, won't be as. And Rob that that amount does include your property as well. Right? It's not just your, your investment accounts, right?

Well, it's your taxable estate, uh, whatever makes up that taxable state. And that's probably not something we want. Uh, get into, but, you know, w we, we have some clients that, you know, when we tell them the 11.78 or whatever, they would laugh, uh, you know, when you tell people it's more than 5 million, they don't laugh quite as hard.

So, I mean, there's a possibility that, that these numbers, uh, you know, if somebody has two or $3 million, even Rob, they may want to see a, uh, a tax attorney, you definitely want your team in place, your financial advisor, your tax attorney, you know, other attorneys, I guess if you're, if you need them, your airlines pilots, you're going to want those guys on your team at all times. And there were some, or if there's some nuances to that as well, or maybe some action steps that people could take now, potentially with gifting a little bit earlier, or maybe doing some, some things like that.

I know it is. Uh, not advice, but, uh, we'll throw out just some different ideas here. Definitely want to get, make sure it's right for you, but anything on that? Yeah. So in 2021, if you have $8 million, um, and you know, it's going down to five or $6 million, she could gift, uh, and use that, that 11 plus million dollar gift, uh, In 2021 now, is that what you're saying?

No, no, you can continue to live. Oh, okay. Yeah, you can continue to live because you're using the rules that are on the books, uh, as of 2021 point. Uh, and again, I don't know the exact number 11.8 or 11.9 million. So you could gift away a whole bunch of assets this year. Uh, with that L you know, 11 plus million dollar exclusion.

And then when you die with a, you know, under, under the $6 million, then none of it would be taxable. Gotcha. Awesome. And that's per person. So if you're married, LUN 0.7 for your wife, 1.7 for you, or vice versa for your husband. Um, okay. So moving along, the last thing I've got, I think is the child tax credit, the expanded child tax.

Kevin walks through that. So this is probably the biggest thing, uh, for, for our clients, Rob, um, because it's a, you know, $2,000 per child under age. Uh, I think it's under eight 17 for 2021 might even go up to 18. Um, but you know, $2,000 per child, if you, if you make less than a hundred and fifty one twenty five head of household, 75 single, uh, it goes up to $3,000 per.

So, you know, this can be some pretty significant amounts of dollars and the difference between, Hey honey, we're getting a refund and Hey honey, we owe tax money. So it can, it can be the difference. It can be the difference for sure. So, uh, so what I would suggest, uh, as a takeaway is if you're in those income areas, like if you're going to make 170,000, uh, in 2021, That might be an opportunity to put more money into an HSA or put more money into a tax deferral, a vehicle, a 401k, et cetera.

And I refer folks back to our child tax credit podcast, where we talked at nauseum on that. Um, hopefully not, but I think it's, it's important to realize for a lot of folks that are under those thresholds. You've probably been getting a check from the IRS every year. And again, go back and listen to that podcast and it'll walk you through why you're getting that check from the IRS, but you won't get it come tax refund time.

So just, just remember that. Yeah, that one is an easy one to forget. Just think it's free money and spend it away. And if you, for some reason are getting it and shouldn't be getting it, you're going to have to pay it back. So yeah. I think about that. What else?

What else did we miss? What did we get? What else you got Kevin Ben. Well, I think, uh, I think the major, uh, benefit here is that a lot of the things we thought were going to happen probably are not going to happen. So a lot of the clients that we work with are not going to be reamed, uh, from the IRS. Uh, maybe that's not a good word.

I don't know. Anyway, it was the word that came to mind. Yeah. So, you know, cause Rob, I mean, the thing is, I mean, I think this is really important to say that the people we work with, um, they're considered high income by standards, but, but most of the people we work with are they're paying health insurance, they're paying for college, you know, full price college.

Uh, we have a lot of people that don't get any, uh, you know, types of, uh, needs. So it's just really challenging for them and sorry, I'm getting, I'm getting choked up here. Uh, it's just really challenging for them. Uh, so, so I, I think that's all good news. Yeah. And I think it's important when you talk about that 450,000, . You're going to have to make about 480,000 to hit that four 50. Uh, mark to, to fall into that 39.6. So probably our, our ups pilots, FedEx pilots, maybe some of the pilots United American, you're going to watch out for it. You know, what makes the most money Rob?

Uh, somebody that works at another airlines, at least that's what every pilot tells us. Every pilot says they have it better. We don't have it. Good. I thought you were going to say like the flying pancake pilots or something like that, or maybe the, uh, Callanan case seven pilots flying fortress. That one deserves it should make over the heck.

Yeah. All 12 or however many people it takes to fly that thing. Yeah. All right. Anything else, guys? Okay. We'll wrap it up. Leave it with a couple of tax. Uh, a couple of funny ones here, kind of it's income tax time. Again, Americans time to gather up those receipts, get out those tax forms, sharpen up that pencil and stab yourself in the aorta de barrier.

That is courtesy of day Barry. This one's by John Baptist Cole bear, the art of taxation consistent. So plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least amount of hissing. That's it we've arrived at the final destination. Uh, this flight 16.5 to three ad hoc charter flight podcast.

If you have any questions, let us know if you like the podcast. Let us know if it's too hokey. If it's not serious enough, let us know. We're probably not going to listen to you, but hit me up@robertatleadingedgeplanningdotcomandsignupforthenewsletteratleadingedgeplanning.com to get more information, if you like what you heard hit that subscribe button so we can reach more people.

And remember, as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who know where they are going. So plant according. From all of us at leading edge. We're out. Thank you for listening to the leading edge financial planning podcast. It has been our pleasure to share this information with you today. Give us a call to discuss absolutely any investment question you may have until next time.

Take care. Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk. And then there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment investment strategy or product we referenced to directly or indirectly in this video will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance levels or be suitable for your portfolio.

Moreover, you should not assume. Any information or any corresponding discussions for services, the receipt, or as a substitute for personalized investment advice from leading edge financial planning personnel, the opinions expressed are those of leading edge financial planning and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market conditions.

 
 

Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 09/07/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.

Categories
Pilot Money Guys

The 4% Rule

Pilot Money Guys:

The 4% Rule

Welcome to Flight #16!

On this podcast, we are talking about a commonly used rule-of-thumb for taking retirement income distributions. The 4% rule is meant to help you easily determine how much you can withdrawal from your retirement accounts each year, without running out of money in retirement.

The 4% rule goes like this:

  • The year you retire, add up all of your retirement accounts, and withdrawal 4% of the total.
  • Each following year, take out only the 4% (of the total balance at time of retirement) + adjustments for inflation.
  • At this withdrawal rate, your money should last 30 years.

So, should you keep it simple and use the 4% rule? We don’t think so!

In fact, this who episode is dedicated to help you know why the “4% Rule” may not be best solution for taking retirement income distributions.

We recommend checking out this great article from Charles Schwab on the 4% rule!

Beyond the 4% Rule: How Much Can You Spend In Retirement?

 

TOP 10 Flying Movies!

10- Dr. Strangelove with James Earl Jones

 

9- Air America

"I don't wanna crash twice in one day!

Gene Ryack : Don't worry, I crash better that anyone I know."

 

8- Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart

 

7- Hot Shots with Lloyd Bridges,

“Gentlemen, we've waited a long time to hear this. In exactly 5 hours and 17 minutes we hit the enemy toast"

Block: "Err... I think that's enemy coast sir"

Benson: "Huh? Coast? That'll take a bit more planning. But it doesn't matter..."

 

6- Flight of the Intruder With Willem Dafoe and Danny Glover

If only for the line “this is going to be the most exciting thing you've done with your clothes on doc”

 

5- The Right Stuff

 

4- Command Decision 1948,

Clark Gable, the trailer is fantastic beginning with, “here told with shattering impact is the inside the mysterious the hitherto top secret chronicle of men who shook the very earth itself whose spirit is embattled but whose hearts are with their families and one woman thousands of miles away.”

 

3- Airplane

Best quote: "You're gonna have to land this plane!"

Ted Striker: "Surely you can’t be serious..."

Rumack: "I am serious… and don’t call me Shirley."

"A hospital? What is it? A big white building with lots of sick people but that's not important."

 

2- Top Gun

"Ben, it’s not your financial planning, it’s your attitude. The crypto markets are dangerous. But right now, you’re worse than Bitcoin. You’re dangerous and foolish. You may not like the guys financially planning with you, they may not like you, but whose side are you on?"

 
1- Memphis Bell
 
 
 

Podcast Transcription

Flight #16: 4% Rule

[00:00:00] Rob: Hey folks, tip of the cap to you. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys, podcasts flight 15. We're going to talk about the 4% rule. This is the place we aim to give you some a light-hearted financial fun. And we usually talk about some airline news, but today, a little bit different. We're going to be talking about the top 10 flying movies of all time.

[00:00:25] I'm your host, Rob Eckland flight crew today. I'll also known as rubber man. By those I don't like your flight crew today is the godfather CFP. Charlie. Madingley welcome, Charlie. Johnny's a little under the weather. Cut him some slack folks, but we've got Mr. Kyle Bell, Ben Dickinson. Welcome. Ben

[00:00:45] Ben: glad to be here and I'm feeling a hundred percent, so, uh, it's going to be, it's going to be good.

[00:00:50] And we're going to, we're going to make sure that Charlie gets through this

[00:00:52] Charlie: Charlie

[00:00:54] Rob: slack. Somebody needs to all right. Seriously. Excellent. Well, we're talking, we got a lot of good feedback allegedly about the top 10 lists. So we're going top 10 flying movie. The number 10, number 10 of all time, top flying movie is Dr.

[00:01:12] Strangelove with a lot of folks, but one of them's James Earl Jones is the Bombardier. Anyways, the best quote, I think from that movie is gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the war room. Number nine,

[00:01:23] Charlie: Ben, what do you got? We got

[00:01:25] Ben: air America. I don't want to crash twice in one day. Don't worry. I crashed better than anyone.

[00:01:32] I know.

[00:01:32] Charlie: Nice. Love it. Pretty good. Nice

[00:01:37] Rob: Charlie.

[00:01:38] Charlie: Number eight. Uh, number eight is a strategic air command with Jimmy Stewart. Something. It's a wonderful life. Maybe it was a throat. One confused something about an angel in that movie, not the set,

[00:01:54] Rob: the same Brigadier general Jimmy thought that

[00:01:57] Charlie: was where the bell rings on the Christmas tree and the angel gets his wings.

[00:02:00] Rob: Didn't Reagan make Jimmy Stewart a major general later on. He did. I'm pretty sure he did. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So take that, uh, number seven. Is, uh, you know, maybe, maybe a critically acclaimed hot shots with Lloyd bridges, famous quote, or a little excerpt gentlemen, we've waited a long time to hear this in exactly five hours and 17 minutes.

[00:02:24] We hit the enemy toast, or I think that's enemy coast, Sur coast. That'll take a bit more planning, but it doesn't matter. Number six, Ben.

[00:02:38] Ben: Flight of the intruder with William Defoe and Danny Glover. If only for the line, this is going to be the most exciting thing you've done with your clothes on doc.

[00:02:50] Rob: Be the best line and aviation flying history movie, uh, in the movie world.

[00:02:56] That is number five. Great stuff. Charlie, what do you got

[00:03:01] Charlie: the stuff coming in at number five, you had a great quote. Oh, ghost

[00:03:06] Rob: in the inner demons. There, there was a demon that lived in the air. They said, whoever challenged him would die, their controls would freeze up. Their planes would buffet wildly and they would disintegrate.

[00:03:16] The demon lived at Mach one on the meter, 750 miles an hour, where the air could go no longer Mo there could no longer move out of the way. He lived behind a barrier through which they said, no man could ever pay. They called it the sound barrier. Whoa, that's scary. That was a, obviously that one could be arguably be number one.

[00:03:35] I think that's good. Number four command decision Clark Gable, the movie itself, not that great, but the is fantastic and epic and it goes something

like this here told was shattering impact is the inside the mysterious, the hitherto top secret Chronicle, a man who shook the very earth itself, whose spirit is embattled by who, but whose hearts are with their families and one woman, thousands of miles.

[00:04:01] Yeah. I mean, it just stopped podcast right here.

[00:04:05] Ben: Nice. We put that at four, we get based on the fact that the movie isn't good, but the trailers off is that right?

[00:04:12] Charlie: Okay, here I go. Here I go. You're going to have to land this plane. Ted striker says, surely you can't be serious. I am serious. I know. Call me Shirley.

[00:04:21] Rob: That's you know,

[00:04:23] Charlie: I mean, we've got another one, a hospital. What is, is it a big white building with lots of sick people, but that's not important.

[00:04:35] Rob: Classic. Okay. Number 10. I, uh, I'm going to take, because I, I switched it to make it a financial planning because it's so well known by everyone listening to probably top gun, obviously number two, Ben, it's not your financial planning. It's your attitude. The crypto markets are dangerous, but right now your worst, the Bitcoin you're dangerous of foolish.

[00:04:54] You may not like the guys financially planning with you. They may not like you. Whose side are you?

[00:05:02] Charlie: A little bit too close to home, a little bit too true.

[00:05:04] Rob: Only kid cause I love man.

[00:05:07] Ben: I love that though. You know, I mean, as Bitcoin Jesus, I can say I am a little too into crypto and crypto is, are dangerous. Disclaimer.

[00:05:17] Rob: Yes. Number one, Charlie, bring it home for us. I mean this one is number one.

[00:05:22] Charlie: Memphis Belle. Yeah. That's it, no quote, necessary

[00:05:26] Rob: quote necessary B 17 crew flying their 25th and final sword. Wow. Germany notables left off this list. I know a lot of people are thinking where's irony Eagle where snakes on the plane

[00:05:40] didn't make it. Yup. All right. Enough of that, let's get into our financial topic of the day, the 4% rule. What is it? How do we think about it? Ah, let's dissect this a little bit. Who wants to take first shot at this?

[00:05:57] Charlie: Let's do this. I could definition Ben. Rob, you got a definition

[00:06:01] Ben: I can, yeah, I can. I can do a little definition.

[00:06:05] You'd have to ready. All right. So 4% rule. You've worked hard. You've saved for retirement. And now you're ready to take some money out of your accounts. Um, but you don't know how much you can spend. If you spend too much, you may be, you may run out. If you've been too little, you may not be able to do the things you want.

[00:06:23] So the 4% rule is a way to figure out how much you can withdraw from your retirement accounts and hopefully, and most, you know, how with high probability not run out of your money. So the 4% rule is. Take 4% of your total retirement accounts, the year you retire and you can withdraw 4% of that amount. So for instance, if you have $1 million in your entire retirement accounts, then your first year, you could take out $40,000.

[00:06:55] That's 4% of a million. And each year you increase the amount that you withdraw based on inflation. So you can adjust it just by the cost of living and that money should with a high probability lasts you for about 30 years. So that is a very common rule. We hear it a lot. Um, it's, there's millions of articles about as probably the first thing that comes up with.

[00:07:18] If you, uh, Google, how, how much can I take out of my retirement

[00:07:21] Charlie: accounts?

[00:07:23] Rob: Absolutely. Well done.

[00:07:24] I would say the 4% rule should not be called the 4% rule. I contend it would be the. Uh, guideline or rule of thumb, but not by any means.

[00:07:34] Right? So, um, little, little history here, uh, for us nerds developed by William being and back, and it was published back in 1994 in the October issue of the journal of finance. He's a native of Brooklyn. Does anyone, do you guys know happen to know what bill being in did for a living prior to becoming a financial advisor?

[00:07:56] Anyone excavator clothes, clothes. He got her, he got a bachelor of science from MIT and aeronautics and astronautics. Wow. He coauthored topics in advanced model rocketry and. At MIT, I guess. So I don't know that he's still doing anything, but yeah, he's he was at least, uh, some of the research.

[00:08:16] I said he was, he saw, he was still doing stuff up through the 2007. I don't know if he's still doing stuff. That's a great question. Put that in the show guests guest,

[00:08:24] Ben: or you should definitely tune into the show. He would enjoy it. Yeah,

[00:08:28] Rob: sure. Uh, but originally it was. Taking 50% large cap, uh, stocks, low cost index funds, ish and 50% bonds.

[00:08:43] And it doesn't get into the bonds too much. Or at least I didn't see that any of my research. And like you said, 30% would draw a safe what they consider a safe withdrawal rate, which is there such a thing? Is there just one number, Charlie? Do you think that just one number that we can say as this.

[00:08:59] Charlie: No, no way.

[00:09:01] That fact that's one of the, uh, the drawbacks about this is so rigid, you know, and like you said, or alluded to at least Robert's rules of thumb,, I don't really know what they're good for. You know, if you're planning for retirement, I don't think this is something to maybe just give you an idea of ballpark, big time ballpark, but there's a lot of assumptions that go into it that may not apply to you.

[00:09:20] You know, a lot of them such as historical rates of returns such as your time horizon, a risk tolerance, et cetera. So yeah, absolutely not to

[00:09:28] Ben: mention that most people spend less in the future. Then they, throughout their retirement, they actually decrease their spending overtime rather than increase it.

[00:09:36] This rule actually says you. Lots of train. Ignore that.

[00:09:42] Rob: yeah, I think what's interesting too about there's so many assumptions that go into it and he later went back and looked at, okay, let's just not look at large cap funds. Let's throw in some small cap and surprise, surprise the rule or the 4% moves to 4.5% when he throws in small.

[00:10:02] Funds, which is no surprise because we are always talking about, you know, where returns come from. And a lot of returns come from small cap funds and a dimensional fund advisors. And we talked at nauseum about that. Well, maybe talk more about it, but, but very interesting how it moved from 4% to 4.5% throwing in different asset classes, uh, or at least different diversification.

[00:10:25] Charlie: Yeah. I think what Ben mentioned is, is really critical in that, as a, when we're working with clients. , firstly, we don't want anybody to run out of money. We don't want that to be even an issue that they have to worry about. That's a big fear that people have. So we want to alleviate that fear, you know, really quickly.

[00:10:41] The second biggest fear that I have as far as retirement income is I don't want to shortchange people early on in retirement. , I really want to get this. Especially when they're newly retired, they're most active, ready to travel. Ready to go. One of these, uh, the go-go years. Is that right? Rob?

[00:10:59] Go-go slow-go

[00:11:02] Rob: no-go slow-go no-go yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:07] Charlie: And I think one of the things. , the 4% rule, with the assumptions of 50 stock, 50 bond, we could talk about allocation a lot and what the assumptions are for future returns versus past not to mention 30 years of life expectancy, maybe you're, maybe that's not an appropriate number either.

[00:11:27] But what I think is, is a very interesting, and that is the assumption that it's a 100%, uh, level of comfort. Now that's interesting because when we do our planning, we also come up with a probability of success or level of confidence. And what, let me take a minute to explain what that is, , it's a Monte Carlo analysis where you run a thousand different stock market scenarios, different rates of return, a different order of return.

[00:11:56] And so then it says out of a thousand scenarios, your success. Uh, you know, if you're, if your level of confidence was a hundred percent, you're a successful a thousand of a thousand times. That's great. And some people think, oh, that's what I want. However, I would argue that you don't want that. I would argue that if you have that level of success in retirement, and this is just my opinion, not advice, but I would argue that you need to spend more.

[00:12:21] You know, because, uh, you have probably have the capacity to do that. And here's, let me give you another example. There was a great study by, uh, some people on Michael Kitces team about what does this probability of success mean? Or level of competence? In other words, let's say you didn't have a hundred, but you had 75.

[00:12:41] You know, level of confidence. And I've seen this before with people going into retirement. One of them was a teacher and she said, oh my gosh, I got, I'm getting a C, this is a bad grade. You know? And we've had other people say, Hey, if that falls less than 90%, that I'm, I'm not going to sleep well at night, but let me explain and, and maybe put a different, uh, framework on this thing.

[00:13:00] And that is that if you're going into retirement and you're doing these calculations, You have a 75% level of confidence or probability of success. What that really means then is that at some point in your retirement, the next, and at some point in the next 30 years, there's a 25% chance that you'll have to make.

[00:13:20] I change, that's it a change? So that sounds much better, right? I mean, and so I think that, you know, th and this is really called dynamic. You know, if, if this is, if we're talking about the 4% rule, what I'm talking about now is dynamic spending where you evaluate it every year, and you look at the, spend, you look at the markets and what's going on and you reevaluate, however, Personally, I'd rather have the 75% cause I'm willing to make an adjustment at some point.

[00:13:47] And the way that, we do this is in, I think, I think people can do this on their own., you all correct me if I'm wrong, but , we dissect it so much that,, a failure in retirement, let's say the 25% scenario where I got to make a change. It's not like you've got to stop spending and eat beans and rice.

[00:14:06] It just means I've got to stop playing golf five times a week and maybe cut back. Or maybe I've got to downsize my RV just to, from class a, to, to a fifth wheel, you know, I mean, so it's not a fail fail. It's just, we've got to

make some adjustments and, and, uh, again, that's the, I think the benefits of dynamic versus the strict of 4%

[00:14:25] Rob: in, even if you tried to do this strict 4%, and I'm gonna put you on the spot here bend a little bit because you described it perfectly.

[00:14:31] It was very well done. Thank. Yeah. How would you even imply apply that 4% rule in it? And I think if we walk through that a little bit, the very easy example we're going to get into it's it becomes very apparent that this is not something you would actually do in practice. So if you had the million dollars, like you said, how would the 4% rule apply first?

[00:14:50] The first year you're taking out 40,000 and then you adjust for inflation, say it's 3% or deflate. Right. Yeah. Not to mention, Hey, you're 50% large cap and large cap had been crushing it lately. Right? So maybe your, your, your million dollar million dollars is ballooned up to whatever 1.1, 1.2. Now, all of a sudden, you're, you know, you're raising your level of spending just because the markets went up and then converse.

[00:15:19] If the markets went down, right? What would you do benefit if the markets went down using the 4%, you know, guideline that they talk about and you're at a million dollars and it goes down and now you only have 800,000, , we don't have to get into the exact numbers, but what are you going to do with your spending?

[00:15:33] If you're, if you're a retired.

[00:15:35] Ben: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question, Rob. And a lot of people, that's one of the problems with the 4% rule. So it's a problem because a lot of times people will see, oh, well last year my S my accounts did great. So this year, my 4% is higher than it was last year, but the whole rule hinges on the fact that you can take it's based on.

[00:15:54] Account balance at retirement. That number, not the number that it is year by year. And so that's really tricky with, you know, like you said, one year, oh, well I may be, I may have to spend less, but if it's a great year, you're going to be really tempted to be like, well, I'll pull out a lot more because all of a sudden I have so much more money and that that's where that 4% rule falls apart.

[00:16:15] And so that, that's why it's a little tricky with this.

[00:16:19] Rob: Yeah, it's definitely gets tricky when you're trying to put it into practice, I think, and it just doesn't really make sense. Why would I, you know, all of a sudden go down. As opposed to 40,000, I'm going down to 30,000. Did you know, is it, can I even do that?

[00:16:33] Is that possible? And oh yeah, the next year stocks, you know, if it went down 10%, the next year might be up 20% or 30% or whatever. So that volatility, if you're going strictly by that year to year, Um, data is, is tough to, to implement, which kind of brings up the point when he did the study. Now, this is kind of a warm, fuzzy, when you think about it when he did the study, but again, back in 1994, and he's repeated the stage with other things like small cap, it was kind of a worst case scenario, which is kind of a warm, fuzzy, Hey, this is.

[00:17:05] 4% rule was based on, uh, if a person retired in 1968 historical returns and that's important too, to foot stop. And Charlie got into it a little bit, the difference between historical returns and what can happen. It reminds me of that quote I picked up in the military somewhere is you don't plan for what you think is going to happen.

[00:17:22] You plan for what can happen. Um, it was kind of, uh, uh, you know, can be used in a lot of ways and in particularly this way. So he looked back historically at what has. Which is, which is a, you know, something to consider. But the 4% rule looks at someone retiring in 1968 and suffering two major bear markets within the first five years.

[00:17:43] And then 10 years of high inflation. And they still lasted for 30 years now, something to think about that was with us investments and a 30 year horizon. If you're shorter, if you're higher, if you're not in the us. You know, different, uh, diversification methods it's going to change. So it sounds good. But when we run Monte Carlo, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the whole Monte Carlo is it's more about what can happen.

[00:18:11] Not the historical returns, it's a thousand different or whatever. Uh, you know, I guess whichever Mar Monte Carlo you're using, uh, analysis, and it's gonna run through a thousand different, uh, market timing, not market timing. Excuse me. Sequence of returns. Uh, scenarios. So, Hey, the first year the market goes way down, what's that going to do?

[00:18:33] And, uh, you know, runs it all the way through. And then it gives you that 75%, which is so important that that 75% or whatever percentage comes up with is if you change nothing. So that all that percentages, if you

change nothing, that's the percentage that you won't run out of money. And two things here, two fears that I have.

[00:18:52] Uh, is running out of money for sure is probably the top one, but closely followed, like you said, is having too much money when I die. I mean, I don't want to just sit there and eat beans and rice the whole time when I have, you know, a couple mil in the bank. Yeah.

[00:19:06] Ben: Yeah. You could have bought that Tesla when you were 65 and all of a sudden you're 19.

[00:19:12] And you're like, dang it. I can't, I can't get down into a Tesla too old. I've missed my chance to

[00:19:19] Charlie: buy it. Have you seen the video, those, those old guys trying to get out of the sports? I can't do it. If you're, if you're 80, you can't get out of some of these sports cars. So don't wait till you're 80 to buy sports car.

[00:19:30] Ben: That's why you gotta buy a Buick. You gotta

[00:19:32] Charlie: buy, you can't get out of those things. Is it too low?

[00:19:39] What are some alternatives to the 4%?

[00:19:42] Rob: You know, there's a. I think the 4%, you can start with that and say, it depends on your w what you're thinking about as far as your retirement. And there's obviously the bucket approach is, is helpful. And maybe combined with some type of, not the 4% per se, but some type of, uh, changing percentage I think is something, uh, that is used.

[00:20:05] Kitsis Michael Kitces, obviously. Prominent financial planner talks about the bumper rules. So he likes using the 4%. Again, he uses, I think even more than 4%, 4.5, or maybe in 5%, uh, based on the returns and, uh, and the diversification methods. And he uses the bumper rule where he'll go to like, you know, 5% plus or minus two, and he's not going to change.

[00:20:28] You don't change your spending, uh, until you hit one of those bumps. And so if you think of the bumpers, like a bowling alley and you put the, for the kids, you put up the bumpers, you know, and the ball hits the sides. So you're not changing your percentage until it hits the sides. But even that I think is complicate

[00:20:46] So I think you're, you know, Charlie, the point of having somebody to help you with this, not to mention when you're hitting this age, uh, I hate to tell you, but your mental capacity may not be as sharp as it once. And at some point they might be for awhile, but at some point it won't be, uh, or it's likely that it won't be.

[00:21:04] So having somebody as a backup is helpful on this.

[00:21:08] Charlie: Absolutely. Ben, what you got?

[00:21:11] Ben: Yeah, I was gonna, I was just going to throw out the, probably the easiest one, which is. You know, talk to, uh, talk to a financial planner, get a couple hours if you're about to retire. And you're curious about, Hey, how much can I spend year to year in retirement, spend a couple hours with the financial planner and come up with a plan.

[00:21:27] What you're going to buy, what you're planning to do in retirement and how much you have. And, you know, they can help really lay it out because it is one of those situations that you may year to year at your spending is going to be maybe completely different. You may want to buy a, buy a big boat one year.

[00:21:42] You know, that would ruin your 4% roll right there. You want to, so you should really get a plan together. We can run the Monte Carlo scenario. Um, but even just to get a. Sort of outline of how much you can, you can withdraw year to year, but, uh, I maybe just took the easy way out. I don't know.

[00:22:00] Charlie: I like, I like that's good.

[00:22:02] Hey, and do you happen to know and good financial planners? I

[00:22:07] Ben: think there's one on this call,

[00:22:10] Charlie: but no, this is a it's in all seriousness. I was telling you all. , this would take a lot of effort. I think if you're on your own, it takes a lot of, I think you should put a lot of effort into it regardless because it's worth it.

[00:22:22] You know, if I could, if I learned that I could spend some more money in retirement and do some more stuff, that's pretty cool. And, and or if I, if I learned. You know, I can prevent myself from running out of having to worry about running out of money, but, , that's worth the effort, whether it be yourself putting in the time and effort or hiring someone.

[00:22:38] But, um, you know, I like, uh, there's definitely other methods. Like you talked about Rob, um, the bucket approach. We, we liked that one a lot. We think that, um, can you describe really just like, absolutely I think is really effective, um, because of what you said, in fact, you alluded to, you know, the mental capacity and I would also add on.

[00:22:58] The emotional capacity. I mean, when we're working and we're accumulating watching the stock market go up and down, as you know, it was kind of painful, but when you're pulling money, And you have that's it it's really painful. Right? I mean, so there's a,

[00:23:15] Rob: I just talked to a guy, you know, we're, we're sitting there chatting and we got into that exact scenario where he was, you know, he was telling her, talking about how he was talking to his mom about the COVID crisis.

[00:23:27] And he was saying, don't do anything. And I said, Absolutely. , you want to rebalance do all these different things, but don't pull your money out. She was wanting to pull her money out and I said, that's so easy for you, or it's a lot easier for you when you have, uh, you know, $30,000 a month paycheck coming in and.

[00:23:47] You are still saving for retirement and you keep seeing your nest, they get bigger. That's easy to kind of, or it's easy. You're still not easy, but it's easier to withstand the ups and downs or the downs per se, uh, of the, of the market. But when you have stopped, you know, making money and you. Nest egg is just dwindling and that's all it's ever going to do.

[00:24:09] And that's why I hate the term nest egg. I would prefer the term deferred spending, although it doesn't, you know, have a good mental picture. I guess the, your spending egg is just dwindling and you see it go down by 30, 40%. That's tough to not run for the Hills. So that's having a financial plan or having a buddy with you saying, Hey, it's going to be okay.

[00:24:32] We're not, it's only bad if you're withdrawing everything this year, which you're not. So, uh, having that bucket approach of the zero to five years of pretty riskless money set aside, Hey, you're good for five years, five to 15, maybe a little more risk. And above 15 years now, you've got a lot more money, a lot more risk, and you can, you can really withstand those ups and downs.

[00:24:54] Charlie: Yep, absolutely. And you just kind of described the bucket approach and, and, uh, I'll just pile on a bit, but. But yeah, you separate those

assets. In other words, if I'm in retirement or entering into retirement the year before then, you're you can, we literally open up new IRAs or new brokerage accounts. We can name them, you know, bucket one safe money.

[00:25:17] One guy said, play money, fund money, whatever we can name it. And there's some psychology behind that. There's mental accounting, you know, behind that, where, when you see, uh, an account that belongs to you and it says. Short-term retirement money, you know, or whatever you want to call it bucket one. And then COVID hits and you see that that money is stable, you know, relatively stable, especially compared to equities.

[00:25:42] Then man, you, you, you were enjoying retirement in the middle of a pandemic as much as you possibly can in the middle of a pandemic without being able to go anywhere. But anyway, you're not stressed out about your, your income going away because you see that one account and you see that it's not. Uh, again, it could be down.

[00:26:01] There's no guarantee, but it's not down as much as the equities usually. So that's, that's, that's really important for our emotional health and our ability to enjoy retirement is to pull those apart. For example, the opposite of that is kind of what you were talking about, where let's say you're in a target date fund, nothing wrong with target date funds to a certain extent, but when you enter retirement, you have one bucket, so to speak or one account, and it's one.

[00:26:27] And even if it's 50 stock, 50 bond is going to go down during a bad stock market because there's equities in there and you're not going to be able to distinguish, you're going to feel like your retirement money is going away. And that's very stressful, very stressful. And so that's one of the beauties of the bucket approach.

[00:26:45] The other thing, and that's kind of a mental, you know, um, mental emotion. You know, benefit. And I would tell you that some of the other benefits are, are that when let's say that a bucket one is your conservative next couple of years of retirement monies, are there be that bonds short term, government bonds, whatever CDs.

[00:27:07] Then when the bad times come along. And we know they will. And equities go down and, and maybe let's say your bonds go up. Sometimes they do that in a bad market. Well, now guess what we get to sell some of those that, that went up because our bucket one is too much. Now it went up, it's too high.

So I'm going to sell some of that stuff and I'm going to buy some bucket three potentially, cause it went.

[00:27:30] So that's really hard to do if you're not, uh, you know, set up to do that. And it's kind of hard to do anyway, quite honestly, because you're, you know, when you're in the middle of a downturn and you're buying more stocks as a retiree potentially, you know, but, but that's an advantage. That's what you're supposed to do.

[00:27:46] You're supposed to rebalance into that and sell high buy low.

[00:27:50] Rob: And I think maybe we need to do a whole, let us know. Hit us up@infoatleadingedgeplanning.com. But I think we might need to do a whole show about that. And I've been thinking about that, maybe writing a paper, white paper on it or something to target retirement date funds, because that's one of my arguments with it.

[00:28:09] It sounds so great. Oh, target retirement date and see if it got the word target in there, which, you know, fighter guys love. Right. Charlie, you and mark would love it, but. It's one of those things. Where is that accounting for your pension is accounting for your IRAs is accounting for all the different facets of your, your retirement inheritance, uh, different scenarios that you're going to go through.

[00:28:31] It doesn't account for those things. It just is saying you're going to retire this time and we don't want you to have that much. At that point, doesn't use a bucket approach, which is, you know, is there's something to be said for having that risk that's whether we like it or not. That's where returns come from is when you have a risk.

[00:28:47] If you're willing to bear the time horizon associated with different, uh, investments, that's where you're going to get the returns. That's partly where returns come from. So I like that.

[00:28:59] Ben: Yeah, I I'll just pile on that as well, the bucket, but, uh, I love that, uh, that first bucket where you see you go into you go into a COVID situation and you look at your cows and you say, oh, I remember now I have this entire account of money.

[00:29:15] That's just cash for the next year, two years, maybe three years. Uh, if, if, depending on how you set it up, but that just gives you that safety. Okay. So all the money I need to spend for the next, however, many 1, 2, 3, That's

that's there. I've already got that. So hopefully the markets will recover by, by that, but even if not, you've still got another safe bucket in the bonds.

[00:29:38] Following that, that usually in a recession does better. So even if the recession lasts for longer than three years, you start running out of that cash. Well, you still got this bond portion that. I just, and then of course you got your long-term money invested, more risky stocks. So maybe some, some Bitcoin

[00:29:56] Charlie: it's like bucket seven or something ultra high risk.

[00:30:00] But I will tell you that, we do have to be careful. The amount of cash we have. And I know you were kind of speaking in generalities a little bit, um, but you don't, that's the one thing where you got to balance how much cash do I have? Cause I don't want to have money just sitting around for, for years, that's just cash, maybe not producing.

[00:30:17] So there's some moving parts to that. Uh, But we do like it and we think it pairs up really well with like a dynamic spending, um, approach as far as kind of reevaluating every year. I think you kind of need to reevaluate every year anyway, but, um, just shifting gears a little bit, I want to hit on, uh, what about just living on my dividends and interest you all?

[00:30:38] What do you think about that?

[00:30:40] Rob: The dividends and the interest off of your, uh, your 50, 50 portfolio kind of thing.

[00:30:47] Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, you probably wouldn't spend nearly as much as you could. Yeah, exactly. I would think

[00:30:53] Charlie: it would

[00:30:54] Ben: be insight going down that road, Rob. I mean, Charlie.

[00:30:58] Charlie: Well, I mean, I, I think it it's, it's fascinating.

[00:31:01] The dividend thing is fascinating. In fact, uh, Kevin, oh,

[00:31:04] Rob: go ahead. Robert. You got, oh, I was just going to say, what if you didn't get any dividends or what if you're a native that year? So

[00:31:11] Charlie: that's right. So, so. You know, one of the most popular videos we we've done, uh, and I I'll give a credit to Kevin was about dividends.

[00:31:20] It just attracts a lot of attention. You know, people want to buy these dividend players about dividend stocks, whatever. And, uh, and those are great stocks. Those are great mutual funds, ETFs, whatever. Usually, however, what I think is my theory is that. Our parents, grandparents could do that. They could do that effectively.

[00:31:40] There were the blue, big blue chippers and they, they were reliable and steady and they lived off dividends possibly. And then they just tell their kids, Hey, just gets you some dividends and live off of them. And so now we have people. Wanting to do that. And I'm thinking, I don't think that applies anymore.

[00:31:56] And here's why there's a couple of things that I think create problems when I want to go by dividends and just live off of them. First of all, it skews my portfolio, asset allocation. You know, I start leaning towards all these dividend players. Again, great companies, but now you're missing out on maybe some companies that are not dividend players, small companies, like you mentioned earlier, Rob, you know, a large values, maybe some of these big companies don't pay dividends and oh, by the way, what if they stop paying dividends such as, uh, for example, last year, Southwest ended its streak of.

[00:32:32] I dunno, 177 quarters of dividend payouts. In fact, they had to write, they, if you take, that was one of the stipulations were taking the, the, the, uh, government funding was no dividend payouts and no stock buybacks. So, people think, well, I can't cut the dividend. Well, they'd cut them all the time.

[00:32:52] 2008 dividends were cut reduced big time. So I love dividend investing, but I do love it as part of an overall. The diversification plan and, , you can create your own dividend. Let's say you own a thousand companies. You're perfectly diversified if that's possible. And they don't, and none of them pay dividends.

[00:33:13] You create your own, just sell capital gains. It's essentially the same thing. So, uh, so that's my 2 cents on dividends is just a kind of , a word of caution. Anyway, I think it's, I think it's different a little bit.

[00:33:24] Ben: . And ju and those companies that don't pay dividends, there's a reason they don't do it. And it's because they can then take that money that they

would pay out in dividends and then reinvested back in their companies and grow more. And that's typically why they don't do that.

[00:33:36] So a lot of those companies, typically over time, don't grow as fast. And again, this is generalization. It's definitely happens, but typically over time, they may not grow as much as these companies that are reinvesting these dividends back into their, their company, just in. From that kind of

[00:33:53] Charlie: perspective as well.

[00:33:55] Ah, so it's like, uh, the 4% rule is a popular rule of thumb, Rob, like you said, but what are, how can we do this, to the meat of the mission, , like what can people do? What should people do if they're approaching retirement? .

[00:34:10] Rob: What do y'all think? I think the first thing, even for me, even for you trolley, right? Like I have you as an advisor, um, and this, I don't want to get into testimonials per se, but you're my advisor and it's nice knowing that number one, if something happened to me, you know, Jan and the FA and Robbie are taking care of.

[00:34:31] But number two, if something, if I'm not, uh, thinking of things correctly, we got got people behind us that are making sure we're doing the right thing. So I think that's number one for me.

[00:34:41] Charlie: Yeah. I got one.

[00:34:45] Ben: I think, I think if you, you got to think how, how much, how long do you think you will need to take money out of these retirement accounts?

[00:34:53] Um, you know, what, how long, how long will you live? How long will you be taking this money out? Because once you do that, then I think you can really kind of nail down a little bit more accurately. How much can you spend, uh, without underspending, without overspending? Yep. So talk about that. Look at your family history.

[00:35:10] Maybe that would help, obviously it would be really nice if we all knew when we would die, which we don't, but that's

[00:35:15] Charlie: right.

[00:35:17] Rob: Gypsy, we recommend going to a gypsy now I'm kidding.

[00:35:24] Ben: There's one of those Palm readers down the street from me.

[00:35:26] Charlie: You can go to the column writer and then go to legal planning. We can tell you exactly what to

[00:35:31] Rob: do there.

[00:35:34] Charlie: So I think number one is what you all said,, get a plan and start thinking about like how long, well, you know, my 60 am I retiring at 60? Am I retiring at 70? What's your time horizon? How long does the money need to last? You know? And then, uh, that's gonna, that's gonna be a big factor in. Whether the rule of thumb is anywhere near, , what, what you might want to spend.

[00:35:59] Um, you know, I think number, number two is, um, get a spending plan, you know, I guess that's part of planning still, and maybe, maybe one a, but how much are you going to spend? How much do you want to spend? And that's something that we go through. , especially if they're in their fifties and whatnot is like, well, what does retirement look like to you?

[00:36:17] You know, and you, and again, we're not talking about I'm straying far from the 4% rule, but, uh, I think early on, if you know how much you want to spend, what kind of lifestyle you might have.

[00:36:27] The other one I have and, , maybe this is number three. Um, what is your emotional, tolerance. And we talked about earlier, the reason I say that is because I think that should have an effect on how you invest. In other words, you know, annuities, we throw annuities out there, very, a polarizing topic in our business, but there are some low cost commission-free annuities that can be, , can be purchased and they can add peace of mind.

[00:36:52] Retirement plan, you know, they, they can help you. And there's been a lot of studies. In fact, I'll throw this one out there too. How about reverse mortgages, reverse mortgages. Talk about their own. A polarizing went out there. They've come a long way. They're very different. Uh,, I've got a paper right in front of me about Wade fowl.

[00:37:07] He's, uh, he's part of the retirement researcher organization, and he's very, well-respected up there with Kitces and he talks about how to use reverse mortgages

[00:37:18] , you know, um, there's a lot of things you can do on your own. There's no doubt about it. If you're willing to put in the time, the effort and, and do some planning, it can be done.

[00:37:26] But this one, I think is one of the more complicated things with the highest, um, consequences. I mean, again, I want my family, me, you all to have a blast in retirement, you know, especially those first 10 years, 10, 15 years when you're active, Healthy before you're in a wheelchair and I'm pushing you around and all that kind of stuff.

[00:37:49] Ben: I I'll pile on and get some advice. I feel like a lot of this stuff, people, people don't know about retirement, how these withdrawals work and then not to mention some of the tax consequences of these withdrawals as well. Uh, for instance, RMDs are a huge one. I'm sure a lot of people have heard of the.

[00:38:05] You know, those are very important. I did talk to my father and not to just roast him on this podcast. He's about to retire. And I was like, yeah. So what, w what do you plan thought about your RMDs and things like that? He's like, well, what's an RV. Say what the heck is that? And I was like, Well, we need to talk, what is an RMD required?

[00:38:27] Minimum distribution, right?

[00:38:32] Charlie: Yeah. You better charge your dad double that's all I'm saying.

[00:38:36] Ben: So

[00:38:37] Rob: I think we could do a whole show on RMDs. Not that we haven't covered them in the past, but we could probably do let us know folks. We need to know. .

[00:38:46] Awesome. Fantastic. Anything else guys? That's

[00:38:51] Charlie: good coverage right there.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:53] Rob: It felt it was strong. Oh,

[00:38:54] Ben: I do have one thing. Oh, you introduced this podcast as flight number 15. Not forget. It's 16. Technically it's 16. Wow. I know. It's

[00:39:04] Charlie: crazy.

[00:39:04] Rob: . . we've arrived at our final destination of whatever flight. This is. It's the end. Thanks for joining us here on my guys podcast. If you have questions, hit me up robert@leadingedgeplanning.com or info at leading edge planning.

[00:39:14] Now. If you like what you heard hit that subscribe button so we can reach more people. And as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who know where they're going, that's it from leading edge. Right? Thank you for listening to the pilot money guys podcast. It has been our pleasure to share some information with you today.

[00:39:31] Give us a call to discuss absolutely any investment question. You may have click on the subscribe button below to be notified when new episodes become available. Visit leading edge planning.com today. Take care of.

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Pilot Money Guys

The Pilot Money Guys: Winter Is Coming!

Pilot Money Guys: Winter is Coming!

I’ll admit I’m a sucker for survival reality shows, particularly shows about people living in Alaska and the Arctic. It’s always amazing to watch as spring starts, these folks must jump right into preparing for the next long winter. With months of darkness, freezing weather, and almost no food available to catch, these folks need to be proactive to have a chance of making it through a successful winter.

There’s a winter coming in our financial lives too. Indeed, there is a chill in the air! It’s time to start preparing now, so that we not only survive the next market crash but thrive. There are plenty of actions we can take now to not only protect us from losing everything, but take advantage of the next crash.

In this episode of The Pilot Money Guys podcast, we are going over how we go from reacting to acting, from surviving to thriving, from freezing and starving to sitting inside your cabin with a nice fire and a moose steak to boot.

Thank you for listening! If you’d like to have a conversation with us about your financial life, please reach out at info@leadingedgeplanning.com or calling 865-240-2292.

 

Podcast Transcription:

Rob: tip of the cap to you folks.

So welcome to the special edition only for our premium platinum plus VIP select club level members. Dang, we're calling it. Winter is coming now. I know your friends may be asking you, how do I become a premium platinum plus VIP select club level member? Well, it's. You simply download the podcast on iTunes, Spotify, and somewhere else.

I can't really remember your radio Stitcher, Stitcher, and you'll have access to over 13 podcasts of premium platinum plus VIP select club level content and go to YouTube, YouTube and YouTube. YouTube. Yeah, obviously I'm just kidding. All of our listeners, our premium platinum plus VIP select club level members.

So tell your friends and they can become one too. All right. Enough of that. I'm your host wealth manager, Rob. Backlund nice. Some people that I don't like very much call me rubber mallet, but today we have the godfather certified financial planner. Charlie Mattingly. Welcome Charlie, yes, sir. And of course our executive producer and vice-president of podcasting, Mr.

Cal bell, Ben Dickinson. Nice.

Ben: Good to be here. Thanks for the title. Upgrade.

Rob: You bet you you've earned it, buddy. Uh, we're going to start off with a joke of the day. Hold on all day, all you CPAs out there. Kevin, we apologize up front, but here it is. How do you know if your CPA is an extrovert? Because not a CPE because he looks at your shoes when he's talking to you.

That's courtesy of Chris brown.

Charlie: Nice. That's an outgoing CPA right there.

Rob: Fantastic. Let's get into some aviation news. Charlie.

Charlie: All right. Excellent. Excellent. So, uh, everybody loves top 10 lists. So we have one, we have what we found one on bit Luxe, travel.com, top 10 pilots of all time history. I know everybody's done. Yes. Are we on it? I mean, that's what everybody

Rob: wants to know.

Well, there's a guy named Charles on there. Yeah.

Charlie: Top 10 greatest all time. Great pilots in history, according to bit Luxe, travel.com now, um, let's see. I think we start with number one. What's your wants to they didn't number them. Yeah, that's gotta be, well, I'm going to start with number 10 then. All right. Ready? Number 10. Well, let me share my screen with you.

So. The folks on YouTube can, can kind of play along with us here. So here we go. Number 10, Robert Hoover, Robert, he were Bob Hoover's. Anybody know anything about Bob Hoover? Rob

Ben: I'm reading here. He's from Nashville, Tennessee,

Rob: a giant in the community.

Charlie: I've seen him in every air show I've ever been to. And he's always flown this.

Multi-engine like corporate area. And like, that's the weirdest thing ever. It's you know, it's, it's impressive. But I had no idea. He was like an air force fighter pilot during world war II. Oh,

Rob: I didn't know that. Oh man. Yeah. He's, he's incredible. I loved the little spiel there about him becoming a pow and then stealing a plane, a German plane and rescue, and you're flying it out of there.

That's wow. I probably have.

Charlie: Am I talking about the same guy that does the air shows you I'm talking about, right? Yeah. You've seen him before. Yeah. But man, this guys it's decorated. He's crazy. So, all right. That's number 10. Number nine, Eric Hartman. I've never heard of Eric Hartman. He became famous as a fighter pilot during world war II Hartman was a German fighter pilot who would eventually become known as the best in history.

He flew 1,404 combat missions down 352 enemy air. Including seven American fighters. Great. This

Rob: one I'm going to, I might have to throw in just because he's not there. And we already talked about a little bit in the pre-show prep was general Robin olds. Isn't on the list. I might throw him in

Charlie: there. Yep.

That's right. Yeah, we can replace the German. Yep. That's right. All right. Number seven general Chuck Yeager. Chuck Yeager retired us air force fighter pilot forties, 1947 came the first pilot in history to have traveled the speed of sound reaching one Mach 1.07, living to tell about it.

Rob: I flew him on a Southwest flight.

Really? No big deal. Absolutely. It was the landing. It was pretty good. I would say strong to quite strong. Wow. Chuck wouldn't have been as sacrament.

Charlie: Wow, too. Cool. All right. Uh, help me keep track here. Numbers. Chelsea Sully Sullenberger. No, I think we all know about Sally landed in a river somewhere and, and everybody

Rob: was safe and he, uh, went to the prestigious United States air force academy, air force academy as well.

Yeah.

Ben: They have an academy for air force,

Charlie: but, um, in the air force, but I'm not mistaken. I don't see that on here, but yeah, he'd lived. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, he's, I think it's a contemporary look. He did a good job. I think there's some recency bias going on there. Quite honestly. It's recent. We remember it.

So he's on the list. Otherwise, I don't know. Uh,

Ben: great nickname to Sally, Sally,

Charlie: people like that. That helps. All right. Noelle vine, this, he must be German. Oh, he's American.

Rob: I mean, we got, we got an Alaskan on here.

Charlie: American aviator introduced the airplane to Alaska. What

Rob: Alaskans have more airplanes per resident than any other state take that.

Wow, that's

Charlie: great. He was known for his resilience, which needed to be, uh, needed to establish a commercial airline of Frigidaire line. That's crazy. He reportedly, still flew and diagnosed with polio and even continue to fly after losing one of his eyes due to injury in 1940s. Wow. Crazy. Okay. Faster. That's the health exam.

Yeah, no kid. And that's it. You can fail FAA exam like that. Refer to. Our last podcast, right on disability. Yeah. All right. Uh, faster funnier general James Doolittle. Ah, we know about James Doolittle. Holy cow. He does definitely deservedly on the, on the list. Baron Manfred Von Rick, another,

Rob: another German,

Charlie: the German red, the red Baron, the red bear.

They named the pizza after him. Fair enough. Yeah, it must be good. Yup. Amelia Earhart. The ladies are representative. Awesome. Very, very high on the list was Amelia Earhart born in Kansas in 1897. She shook up flying in her twenties. No, she took it up. She didn't shake it up. We took it off. Well kind of shook it up.

I was going to say that's true. That's relevant. She shook

Rob: it up to fly across the Atlantic by

Charlie: herself. Right. That's incredible general Charles Lindbergh. All right. We know him as well. So thank you. Most well-known pilot in the world. Charles Lindbergh got his start in aviation as a parachutist and wing Walker.

Hmm. So Charles Lindbergh was not the first transplant flight ever, but it was the first solo flight of it's CAD. So that's pretty cool. He went to the, or it looks like he went to west point. He reached the rank of Bridget Brigadier general, like you said, Ben metal of honor in 1927, distinguished flying cross 1927 and the congressional golden.

  1. Number one, any guesses.

Ben: This is two people. It's kind of

Charlie: two people. Yeah. Wilbur and Orville Wright. Number one, I forgot to wait for the drum roll their most famous of all pilots known as flight pioneers. The Wright brothers invented, built and flew the world's first successful motorized airplane took off from kitty Hawk, December 17th, 19 three.

The brothers also invented aircraft controls, making fixed wing flights possible. Wow. Pretty cool. Yeah, that's

Rob: cool. Cool. We'll have to, maybe next time we'll come up with the top 10 all time. Great pilots in movies.

Charlie: Oh, pilots, that actors that played pilots?

Rob: Uh, no, just their characters. Oh, okay. You know, Ted striker.

Oh, that's right. Whose well, here in the pilot. Nice disregard. All right. Excellent. I like it. Anything else on the aviation news front?

Charlie: No, I think Ben's got something though. I, I got a shout out,

Ben: a shout out our own, our own COO Lisa and all the, uh, the, the Marine spouses out there. We had some, uh, she was, she was filling us in on some, some pretty, actually really awesome stuff about, uh, About what's going on in Afghanistan.

And she's a part of a Facebook group of Marine spouses that helped to try and bring some people, some, some translators home and, uh, really did some awesome work. She was sharing us some, some stories from there and some Facebook posts and it was really incredible. Yeah.

Charlie: I don't know. Do you guys get a chance to read those?

Absolutely. Yeah. , it's pretty amazing. What's been going on, you know, it's been pretty tragic, since mid August all hell broke loose in Afghanistan, we're going to avoid talking and placing blame right now and avoid politics right now because what's important is that we get people out right now.

Um, we can talk about the other stuff later. Now. What's cool about this situation. Is that the Marine there's a Marine Corps, a U S M C officer's spouse group on Facebook. And they put all that other stuff aside and they said, let's do something. And so these, these gals, and I'll say gals, because they are,, and, and most of them have Marine Corps husbands on the ground, either over in Afghanistan or, Helping out a state departments in various places.

So this has just been amazing. And to the crux of the story here, these spouses got on Facebook and they said, all right, we're going to coordinate to locate people in Qubole and we're going to get them the heck out of there. So, I mean, How does that happen? I mean, that's awesome. Awesome. Those two, those girls in that group, those spouses group, because let me just read a couple of real quick here.

And this is kind of, they're just coordinate and talking and communicating to people through WhatsApp, Facebook phone, whatever, anywhere in the world, anywhere in the country. One of them says, hello, I need some help. I need the help of some miracle workers. My husband's interpreters family is in or by the water canal, outside the Abbey.

At the Qubole airport. My husband has worked with the state department. I believe all the paperwork is complete. The family's name is, and this is the Afghany family. They're carrying white papers that say professional, the Taliban has been searching for them and they are desperate. I have phone numbers and copies of letters if needed.

So this just, there's just hundreds of these messages going on and on back and forth like, Hey, uh, there's one here. Update. Please help. We have a translators waiting at the north gate. He and his family are trying to get through. It's him, his wife and five children. Can anyone help? He has a passport. They are desperate.

The situation is worsening and we knew, you know, last Thursday was, was terrible. And, uh, but this was prior to that. So they're getting people out of there, you know, there's, you're not going to see this stuff on the news. And again, you're going to see bad stuff on the news. We need to hear that stuff too.

It's important, but this is just ladies making it happen and getting people out of there that helped the U S for the last 20 years. , and the allies. Yeah. The last one I read here is just a really cool meme of, uh, and I'm not going to share this on our screen just for, we don't want people's names up here and all that kind of stuff.

But, uh, one of the spouses, uh, posts a meme with a little baby saying yes, and, the spouse makes a comment on Facebook and says, holy hell. Y'all our guy is safe. Our guy is safe. The Marine spouse mafia has pulled off something, the state department and multiple other groups haven't been able to do that.

This group can move mountains and we could run the whole damn world. So I think that's really cool hats off to those Marine spouses to, to just step up and take the initiative and get it done. I mean, that's incredible. I just can't even say enough for those that took part in that and the difference that they made and even if it was one life they got out of there, one person, it was many more than that, but they save lives.

I mean, that's just. That is incredible.

Ben: Yeah, it really is. And not, not to downplay them, but just, there's just so many groups that were doing that too and helping out and trying to find people and just, just it really, the amount of there's a lot of power. We have a lot of power if we team up and, you know, we can get a lot done and it's, it's pretty inspiring.

It is

Rob: pretty cool. Just, just for a moment here, let's take a, take a second to remember the Marines that actually would. Fell during that Afghanistan, uh, you know, just, I guess we're recording this and August 30th, 2021 this last week. So we're going to take a moment of silence here in this room.

It's pretty, pretty extraordinary what our service men members have gone through. And thanks for sharing that, Charlie, and looking at it up cause it's, it's super important. So, absolutely. Thanks for that. We're going to move on now to our financial topic of the day, which is, you know, comes out of the game of Thrones.

Obviously winter is coming, a market downturn will have. We don't know when we don't know for how long, but we can say with confidence, which we don't say a whole lot, necessarily in this business, but we can say with certainty, I should say that a market downturn will happen. Charlie, what do you think?

Well, let's just, let's define this. Let's let's start putting some, uh, let's start filling in this picture a little bit. Let's define what is a correction, a recession, a depression. Um, what do you think? W what do you got on that? Yeah. So

Charlie: if you look at the headlines enough, and I look at the news, I love which enough, which I've kind of tapered off over the years because you see the same headlines over and over again.

So-and-so expert predicts, so-and-so expert predicted. So it's really a way to sell newspapers and, you know, those places have to sell commercials and ads. So they get on there and they talk about this, but it happens all the time. So what let's talk about a correction, you know, the correction is coming is going to be a headline.

Just go ahead and put it out there. Ben, put me on the headline somewhere. Predicting the next correction it's going to happen. Correction is defined as a 10% decline. Yeah. Or more. I would S I should say, so guess what, let me, let me share something here. Just with our YouTube folks. Maybe they can see this, but.

Corrections happen almost every single year. In fact, it's a really rare exception when they don't happen, because on average it happens every year. And let me just read this. This is from JP Morgan asset management. They update this every single year and I find it fascinating. So basically, despite if in fact, let me just correct.

Correct here every year we average 14.3% decline. Within the year. So it's intra year, not calendar year. It just so happens that we as human beings like to look from January. To December the marks, this talk market does not care about January to December. It happens anywhere in between all the time.

 . Let me read this slide real quick. Despite the average injury, your drop a 14.3% annual returns were positive 31 of the last 41 years. And I think this is data from 19, uh, 1980. Here. It is on the, on the slide here, 1980 to 2021.

 What do you all think about that?

Rob: Yeah, I, uh, just to kind of wrap that up a little bit, or, you know, the point here I'm going to steal that. Tony Robins, a little bit of his book on shakeable. He's got freedom fact number one on when we were, when we start talking about declines and it's on average corrections have occurred about once a year since the 19 hundreds.

So even if we go back farther once a year, since 1900, uh, uh, it's just, you know, we, we tend to look at the stock market. If you look at the graph of the stock market, we pull back and when you pull way back and you look at it from the a hundred thousand foot. It looks like everything's going up.

Everything's great. But if you zoom in, that's when you see it's the Rocky mountains out there, things are going up and down and sideways and, and, uh, and I think a lot of people, if you know that it's easier to weather the storms. Yeah,

Charlie: absolutely.

Ben: . Yeah. I remember looking back, um, just to the beginning of March of last year.

Yeah. I was looking at,, how could I not tell that,, COVID was going to happen and crashed the economy and then you look back and it's like down 7%, one day up 5% of the next day down, 6% up, 8% down, 10%, you know, it just goes up and down. But you know, back in my head, Well, all of a sudden on March 23rd, this sidebar had just crashed and that's not really, that's not exactly how it works over the course of a few days and maybe a week.

But yeah, like you said, you zoom in, you see that it's a lot harder to, uh, to really predict these. And when you kind of zoom out and look at it from a macro scale.

Rob: So I think it's important. This is kind of leading right into the next definition, which is a recession, right? So we have a correction decline of 10%.

And then Travis, basically every year yeah. Happens all the time. And then a recession, right. Is a little bit worse. Yeah. It could be a lot worse, I guess, but it's defined as at least six months or two quarters of a negative GDP gen generally identified as a falling GDP or two consecutive quarters of economic decline.

So that's a recession and those happen as well, often. And

Charlie: yet

Ben: do you got, was it was that last year? Was that even officially a recession?

Charlie: The shortest one on record, the shortest one to

record.

Rob: Okay. GDP decline. Yeah. Yeah,

Charlie: yeah. And so the interesting thing about recessions is most of the time, we don't know where in one until it's almost over and we certainly don't know we're out of it.

Way later. Yeah.

Rob: It's can't even be identified and tell you've had it and tell it's been going on for six months. Yep. You can't even technically consider it a recession. Yeah. So

Charlie: that's the fascinating thing about, what do we do? Well, it's like, you don't even know you're in one, the, the information is so delayed and oftentimes the, the economic board, I forget their official name.

They'll go back and they'll revise that they'll change. for several quarters afterwards as well. So, uh, it's just really hard to, to take action on those kinds of things. Cause, even if you know, you know, we're in a recession or there's going to be a recession, if you don't know the exact timing of that, it's not usable information.

Rob: Right. And those, those a recession happens on average since again, since 1900, every four years. But. It's not like clockwork. It's not like you can set your watch. Oh, four years from now. There's going to be a recession. You can't do that. It's a boom and bust cycle.

And it's changing all the time. Right now. We're in, I think we're in one of the longest expansion periods on record. Maybe not right now because of the COVID. But prior to that, yeah, it was one of the longest expansion periods on record in it and it changes. So we still know what's going to happen.

Charlie: Yeah, Robert, how are we successful going into, during and out of a recession or a correction or whatever it might be.

There are things that we can do. We don't have to sit on our hands, which is really nice to know. Cause I think that's what drives people crazy. I feel like I should do something. In fact, the action that people tend to take is sometimes destructive. We'll talk about that in a minute. We don't believe that you can time these things.

We don't believe you can. Timecode. I think we learned that I think most people would agree. Although at this moment, we're probably now starting to hear about people that, oh, they did know the top and the bottom, but last March, I didn't hear anybody proclaiming the bottom at a time. I was listening. I promise you I was listening.

So what happens, you know, what happened? During these times we get emotional. We get scared. We want to pull our money out. Right. That's the action that we want to take. We don't think that's the right action. We think that's very risky to pull all your money out of the market. The reason I think it's risky is because when do you get back?

And so I pulled the slot, you know, Rob you. And I did that. What lies ahead? And this is a, this is a great slot. Let me try to give the proper credit to people here. This is visual capitalist, the advisor edition, I think advisor dot visual capitalist, and they're really amazing information. So you guys, it was a

Rob: terrible YouTube or not, I don't think.

Charlie: Look at that, but you all tell me, when are you going to get back in the market in 2020? Was there a good time? I mean, April 3rd, global COVID surpasses 1 million, April 20th, oil prices go negative. We had protests, we had violence all through the summer. Did you all know in July 28th, Iran fires a mock at a mock us aircraft.

So I'm assuming they didn't know as mock aircraft carrier. I don't know. But you didn't hear about that? Um, record wildfires last August. Oh, by the way, there was just little thing that happened, early November. We'll called, uh, the election. Right? So you're going to get back in, or just prior to an election that was as divisive as last year.

Ben: I think, and like you said, this is like, when do you get back in? Okay. You may wait. Okay. I'm going to wait a month and see what, see how things are. And then you're like, oh gosh, oil prices go negative for the first time you wait another month. Oh, okay. Well now we're getting all these riots and next month I ran, you know, it's just every time there's always an excuse in a pretty good one to not get back in, actually.

Yeah. If I heard about that Iran thing, I'd be

Charlie: scared. That's right.

Rob: I know. Get to this in a second, but if you're getting out to you're missing out on buying when things are low, when stocks are low and, you know, just to think about it, a full cycle, if you will, of the economy lasts about 4.7 years, 3.2 on average.

Again, these are averages 3.2 years of growth. And then at 1.5 year recession. So that's kind of the cycle that doesn't happen exactly like that all the time. It's obviously the averages of it. Yeah. So, so you just don't know when things are going to happen. So if you're out, I mean the market can turn really quickly and it's erratic and, and the downturns can be deep.

And if you're out, the up, the upside can be very steep obviously. Is that, is it definitely, if you're looking at the YouTube, it's a V. Recovery. Yeah. The stock

Charlie: market. Yeah. Rob, those are great points, man. I love that. The statistic, we use that a lot and when we plan for people's retirement, they need income in a, in a few years, let's say, and my mom retired in 2020, so she's the perfect case study.

And she, we didn't have to sell anything because she was prepared for that. Like you just said about a year and a half is. You know, we double that. We triple that. We make sure that someone has secure income just prior and into retail so that they don't have to worry about the stock market going down.

 Your, your income is not going to be compromised. If we have a recession, it can't be, we have to plan for that. And we do. And, and what I have right now up on the screen, What it looks like in real life and you hear stories, you're going to hear stories and fly with people.

I got out in March. Uh, I don't know, one, whatever the top was. I got back in late March but most of the time, this is what happens., this person that you're seeing on the screen here and we'll talk to it here, they stayed in the market. Uh, it was tough. It was, it was like, uh, 12 round boxing match. You're getting pummeled all year long, basically. And Ben, like you mentioned earlier, if you look at the month by month return, it was nasty and it was nasty until about mid summer, late, late fall into the last two months of the year, knocked it out of the park.

This person is stuck with it because we went into , 2020 with a game plan. We knew when they were going to retire, we knew how much they needed to be safe. You know, nothing was compromised. Their retirement goals were intact. They stayed with it. They were, we were proactive when we were prepared for this, even though we didn't know what was gonna happen or when, so they were up, they finished that a conservative portfolio.

They were up pretty decent. So this is what it looks like. You stick with it and it's hard. It's not easy. You want to do something. There are other things to do. We're going to talk about and

Ben: onscreen, we're seeing the eight, 8.2. Yeah. Over over that time.

Charlie: Yeah, not quite a full year to December. And that's a dollar increase of about a hundred thousand bucks on the screen there.

And

Rob: just to, to clarify for again, for our podcast listeners, we're looking at a slide that shows, this is an investor who stuck with the market. And at the end of almost a year here, they were up 8.2.

Charlie: Yeah, but a hundred thousand bucks in dollar terms. So it's hard to believe that you could go through a year like that.

We just talked about all this stuff that happened, but yet we're up similar person, very similar timeframe, very similar asset level decided that they were going to get out and not just like, Hey, I'm not afraid, but I want to get out. And then that way, if it goes lower, I can reinvest back in and like talking about this stuff, that's really not.

Reasonable to do or execute for that matter because Ben, what you said earlier is it goes down one day, 10% up 10%. We had, we had multiple days like that last March, April, and maybe even into may. So getting a clear picture on that while you're in that battle is nearly impossible. Is this the day that a rebalance and buy, sell my cash and go back into, you know, I mean, it's just not clear ever during the.

So this person really never found the entry point., they exited probably right at the bottom March timeframe, and then just waiting for the time to get back in. You know, there is no time. There's never a great time to get back in. Finally, in November, December timeframe that the money goes back in, end up with a minus 4%, a dollar value down about $45,000.

So again, twos to investors. The the difference there is about 150,000, $145,000 swing in that one year between an investor a and investor B, that's just a case study. And when people tell me,, Hey, the market's up right now this year to date. I don't know what it is exactly, but it's up.

Hey, I want to get out right now because like you said, Rob, the storm is coming. The winter is coming and I would just want to preserve the gain that I have. Okay. That's a logical and reasonable. But then my next question is, well, when do you get back in? Do you stay out forever? When w what's your trigger?

What's your magic signal? There is none. And getting back in is the challenge, and that's where people lose. I'm okay with taking your 10% rate or, , return and running. But how do you get back in that's where people really lose, just like you're seeing on the screen that we're showing it's $150,000 difference in the two similar investors.

And I don't think you can ever get that back. You all my mind, am I wrong? How do you get it back?

Rob: Nope. You, you don't get that back. Yeah. And you're gonna, you're gonna suffer for that. Um, hopefully you learn from it and you don't make the same mistake when the next downturn comes, which we know is coming, obviously.

So those are the tale of two cities, right? Two people right there, 50,000. Yeah. And, uh, the percentages on those at 3.9% and 8.2% gain versus the loss of the 3.9%. And that's, that is why even the, for the folks. Um, now again, we're looking at a slide where the guy got out or a guy or gal got out at the bottom of the market and then tried to get back in.

It's a certain point. And there it's a perfect example of, they just, they sold when the stocks were low and they bought when stocks were high and the exact opposite way. What do you want to do? And it just goes to, the, the whole thought process. Nobody can consistently predict whether the market will rise or fall. And even for the folks that the time to perfectly say you timed it perfectly and you got out right before COVID. The chances of you timing it perfectly to get back in are slim to none, right?

Charlie: Yeah, you're right. And that's a great transition Rob into, well, what, what does this look like in real life?

When I get out of the market, when the news headline is scary and I get it back in when the coast is clear, which those two things we, we don't know, so what does that look like? Well, I can tell you. To get out of the market when things are scary means you go in your account and you sell apple, Amazon,, you name at and T whatever company, mutual fund, I'm talking to mutual funds, ETFs.

If you own individual stocks, you got to sell that stuff and you're locking in losses when you sell it. You're, you know, people say I'm going to be more conservative when things get bad. Well, if you wait until things get bad, And then you become more conservative. That means you're selling and taking a permanent loss and people say, no, it's not permanent because it's going to continue to go down.

Then I re-invest my cash. Well, no, it's going to be stuck. Never happens the way we think it's going to, uh, for example, 2020. So the average investor does very poorly. This is the average of Beck equity investor, about 3% from the 20 year, uh, period of 2001 to 2006. The average equity investor, according to this JP Morgan, we're sharing here.

Think the information comes from Dalbar. So now there's a debate. Some of this information is debatable. You know, maybe they didn't take into consideration costs of investing, et cetera, et cetera. But no, and the last, the point is clear that by becoming more conservative during scary times, we sell low. If we get back in the market, we're buying.

Later on down the road. So that's what it looks like in real life, but we, the language we use is sounds so much better. I'm going to get out, you know, I'm going to get back in later. That sounds pretty cool. Selling at a loss sounds terrible. And that's, that's really the reality. So,

Rob: and if you think you somehow are one with the market, just realize that some of the smartest hedge fund managers in the world.

Have tried to do this and failed and they continue to fail again. No one has met anyone who can consistently time the market. No one has met anyone. Who's met anyone who can consistently time the market. And some of these people, these hedge fund managers, who've got, you know, Harvard degrees, tons of letters behind their name, all access to all kinds of information that you and I will never dream of having have failed to time the market.

. So how do we prepare? What do we do? Obviously we're pilots. So I talk about that. We always talk about simulating it chair, flying it. Be ready. We know winter's coming. We know a recession is coming. We know a corrections. So we need to be ready for that emotionally because of, uh, you know, since caveman days, our emotional response to those kinds of fight or flight, uh, scenarios is usually wrong when it comes to investing.

But if you're ready for it, then you can be, you take the emotion out of it and get it. Charlie, what are some of these strategies that we use so that we can do well, even in the downturn, right? Yeah.

Charlie: I'm sorry to keep interrupting there, but I'm just dying to jump in and get out of here because there's a lot of stuff we can do.

And that's the, that's the misconception is like you just sit on your hands and put up with it. Well, And people say, are you passive? I'm like, well, what does that mean? I hate that word because we're proactive. We're going to plan in, in the flying world, we're going to chair fly the heck out of this. , that's an air force thing maybe I guess, but, um, we're going to practice, we're going to run simulators. We're gonna, talk about it. We're going to study it with our clients, and we're going to show them and, uh, what it's going to look like when this does happen, and I think.

It is like flying. There's some mental preparation. There's some value to that mental preparation, because cause Rob, you said emotionally, it's very difficult once it happens. And Ben, before we got on, you're talking about, Hey, people that have poor balance sheets, they suffer a lot because the stress is multiplied.

If you're a person that's got cash paid off your debt, you're saving a recession is a little bump in the road. Maybe stress. But you got you're buttoned up. You're good to go. In fact, I showed you all the texts. Uh, a friend of mine always has way too much cash because he's afraid to do anything with it all the time.

So I texted him last, March 20, 20. He said, Jason, put your money to work now it's mid-March and it was still nasty. And he said, no way, no way. I said, look, you got cash. There is no recession. If you've got a strong balance sheet, get your money to work. Now's the time. You make money, but it's hard, really hard to do.

So what does that send me a simulator look like? And I've got something on the screen here, but I'll also talk to it. Uh, but basically we simulate people's lives. What's important to you. What do you want to do? What does retirement look like? What's your vision. Then we put price tags to all that stuff.

You know, it's like, ah, this seems like a, uh, an exercise and yeah. Wasting my time, whatever, but it's important to know what you want to do in retirement. It's important to know how much that's going to cost. Then like the simulator we're going to fail an engine or two. What if now you, we have a bad stock market.

What if we have a bad stock market when you're 50? Ah, well, not a big deal. You know, we can survive. We can be fine. What if you have one, when you retire from the airlines at 65 current retirement age, the year you retire, like in 2008, when, when the retirement age was. We had a lot of pilots retiring right into 2008 at age 60.

I just like to be those, those people. So that's the, one of the bad timing scenarios that we run because is one of, I'm not going to say the worst case scenario because of course we could have Armageddon and blah-blah-blah and all that stuff, but it's a tough one and it's a unlucky scenario. So we run that scenario and we go, okay.

Here's what you need to do right now to be prepared for that terrible scenario. Again, the point here is that a recession tomorrow for most of us that are in our accumulating years is not the worst case scenario. The one that you really need to watch out for is the year that you retire. If we have a recession and the stock market tanks, what are you going to do?

And are you prepared? And there's a lot of things that you can do. And, and again, running those scenarios brings a lot of those solutions to the store. Ben, what do you think?

Ben: Yeah, when I think about, just preparing one thing that, comes to my mind is.

Is making sure you have some cash on hand, you have your emergency fund, you have the basics taken care of, I guess you'd say. You can,, avoid , having to sell your investments in a downturn to, to be prepared.

And a lot of that is what we were talking about. You know, we simulate this and we say, Hey, w what, what kind of income do you need in return? We're going to make sure you have that, that way. If, if something even worst case scenario, instead of pulling from your investments that are down, you're going to pull from other areas.

Maybe it's a pension, maybe it's an annuity. Maybe it's bonds, you'll pull from other areas and, that's how we can be proactive, and then maybe when they're Haddish coming, you're going to be like, well, why aren't we selling our stocks? Stocks are falling.

Yeah. Well it's because guess what, actually, you're, you're, you're covered as far as your income. You don't, if you don't need the money from those stocks, Why are you worried? We have the statistics on how often the, or how long these recessions last as, as we've talked about already. But, at least for having a few years of income or, you know, uh, taken care of, and then you don't have to worry as much, um, you know, about the recession, don't worry about

Rob: it. That a statistic again, is a recession lasts, usually lasts about 15 months and the average expansion is 48 months.

So, um, the great recession, even in 2008, 2009 lasted for 18 months. And that was the longest period of economic decline since world war II. Wow. So it doesn't happen a whole lot. And I think it's just so important. Like you're alluding to Ben that you have those different assets that you can pull from,

Ben: and in that time, just that time from really quick, uh, if we, we saw it last year, I mean, if you were 100% equities, even if you're down, you know, you got, you went down, maybe 30%, you were recovered by August.

So even if you were 100% stock, you were recovered, that's pretty amazing. That's the S and P 500, of course we're looking at, but that's pretty amazing. And that's so fast.

 

 

Charlie: . . .

A lot of people, you know, Rob, I know you're doing it now, but when I was flying, people would say, man, this next downturn is going to be terrible. This next recession, terrible. I'm like, well, maybe you shouldn't buy the new truck and maybe you should save some cash. I'm stepping off to Florida. Hey, that's too close to home.

I'm hitting too close to home now. But yeah, you know, do the basics and have the basic discipline and the recession comes along. It's a natural part of the economy. It sounds scary. It sounds like somebody screwed something up when we have a recession, but it's a natural part of the economy. , the last thing I'll say before we let you all wrap it up is , we're, we're proactive.

We do all the planning. We think about it. We talk about it, we prepare for it. We know what's going to happen. And then once it happens, it's still difficult, but at least we know what decisions we've talked about in my head. Now, what about when it happens? Do we just sit there on our hands and do nothing because we're not going to sell, w we'd rather not sell unless the client just can't stand it.

And that means we didn't do a good job of evaluating risk going into that, but what are, what can we do once all hell breaks, loose, such as last March. There's lots of things. And the most profitable. One of the most profitable thing to do is take that opportunity. If you're an equity investor, especially.

Is to rebalance with an S equity asset classes. You know, like let's say international does poorly us does great. Well, you're going to sell some over us and you're going to buy some international. , . The other one is, think about taxes, able to look for tax loss, harvesting opportunities.

And,, there are some rules on that and some tax rules on that you got to follow, but there's a great opportunity there to save taxes. , especially if you've got another capital gain that's fairly large and you're trying to exit that business. You could save money on taxes by looking at a tax loss, harvesting, you know, at those opportunities.

And they'll show up there and in, in the Tom's like last March, and then finally, it's a great time, Ben, I think you mentioned it earlier to reassess. Hi Emma. There am I in the right risk bucket? , so those are some things that you can do during,, the, the downturn instead of just sitting on your hands. However, most of the work should be done prior to that. And the last thing I'll say, I promise this is really the last thing I'll say is that if you're nervous about a recession, uh, think about the worst case scenario, which was going to happen when you retire, you can save a little more and you can negate the effects of that.

We've seen it mathematically. You're not emotionally. Now it's still gonna be difficult. If you're nervous about that situation, we can run the numbers. We can show you exactly how to negate that scenario and how to keep it from affecting your retirement goals in the, and that's very doable, you know, so that, that's what we recommend is preparing for that way in advance.

So now I'm really done

Rob: abs, uh, it's great stuff, Charlie. And I just to kind of give people some examples of that asset allocation for, you know, for the lay person, I guess. You're rebalancing. All you do is you have equities or stocks and bonds, right. 70, 30, that mix, whatever it is. And when a downturn happens, your stocks are going to fall way low, maybe the 50%, 60%, whatever it is.

And it's outside of that 70, 30 mix that you want. So then what are you going to do? Well, you're going to buy more stocks. You're going to sell bonds. You're going to buy more stocks and you're automatically buying when it's low and selling. When it's high. That's a great part of asset allocation and tax loss harvesting for you.

For those of you who don't know it, it's basically when you buy a stock and it goes down, you're basically capturing that loss and then buying something else that is similar to it. So you still have a good stock in there, but it is capturing that loss on your tax

Charlie: advantages.

Yeah. You nailed it. . I did fail to mention Roth conversions. We did a lot of Roth conversions last March as an opportunity. We were doing some anyway. And all of a sudden, if your account balance goes down or that value of that investments goes down, you can subsequently convert that and pay less taxes, especially if you were going to do that anyway.

So again, a lot of moving parts on a couple of those things, and don't take that as advice because. No, you know, we're talking very general strategies here. And again, there's a lot of tax laws and things that you need to think about, but there are a lot of things to do is the point of the discussion here.

A lot of things to do a lot of opportunities when, when things get scary.

Rob: Yep. Again, rebalance, if you can invest through the downturn dollar cost averaging monthly investing, tax loss, harvesting Roth conversions. Have solid financial principles to stick to those avoid bad debt, build your savings, invest for the longterm.

That's what we're talking about.

Ben: Okay. , quick thing from the,, young pilots out there, , Hey, a young person you should be happy.

There's a recession to some degree because you can buy those. You can buy ownership in companies. And we joked about it about me. Hey Ben, you should be pumped right now. You go by it by some of these come by and you're like, apple, go buy some apple. Like you just got a 20% discount. Yeah. Okay. You know, and obviously no one wants a recession, but if you're a young person take advantage of those opportunities, if you see the market is down, I know it's going to be very tough because it was tough for me.

I looked at it, you know, you're watching the news, everything's going to hell in a hand basket, but you know, it's. It's a great time. Great time to take advantage of it.

Charlie: Good

Rob: point. Yeah. And remember if the downturn does appear, it's only a matter of time before things will start looking up again.

Charlie: Yep. And just for those people on YouTube right now, that is not Benz underoos on his microphone.

No, just want to clarify. Let's open we'd we'd we'd clear that yeah. We have a problem with our microphones. You know, we need to have we're too cheap to buy those little furry things. Those are not bands underoos on his microphone. That

Rob: is a,

Charlie: what is that? Ben,

Ben: allegedly not my underoos look. I, I had to find something to cover it up full disclosure, and apparently it helps with the audio quality

Rob: when you sound great professional.

Yeah. I'm going to get so much on the ruse.

Ah, just kidding. Just kidding. Okay. Anything else? At least? Yes. Anyway. Right last a couple of quotes. We'll leave you with these two are from burden molecule, the author of a random walk down wall street. Very smart guy. The majority of investors failed to take full advantage of the incredible power of compounding the multiplying power of growth times growth.

And the second one is it is not hard to make money in the market. What is hard to avoid is the alluring temptation to throw your money away on short, get rich quick speculative binges. It is an obvious lesson, but one frequently ignored Burton Malkiel. There that's it. Folks we've arrived at our final destination.

Let us be the first to welcome you to the end of flight 14. Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast. If you have any questions, shoot us an email. robert@leadingedgeplanning.com. If you like what you heard or even if you didn't hit that subscribe button, how about that? So we can reach more people and out.

Remember the world makes way for those who know where they're going. So plan accordingly.

Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 09/07/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.

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Pilot Money Guys

2021 Child Tax Credit Payment: How Much Is Your Kid Worth?

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We apologize for interrupting your regularly scheduled podcast program. We have BREAKING NEWS! What is up with the new American Rescue Plan (ARP) CHILD TAX CREDIT payment?

There is a new increased Child Tax Credit Payment via the American Rescue Plan (ARP) that's paying out right now. Like many of us, you may have received a payment that you weren't expecting.

  • Will you have to pay it back?

  • Will it cause your tax bill to be higher in April?

  • Should you spend it now?

  • What's the difference between the new increased ARP Child Tax Credit and the previous version of the Child Tax Credit?
Typically, taxpayers with income under $400,000 MAGI, married filing jointly, received a $2,000 tax credit per child under the age of 17 to offset your tax bill. This year, instead of getting the credit on your taxes, a portion of the credit will be paid out in advance over the next 6 months. If you count on the tax credit to offset your tax bill, you could be in for a big surprise!

In this podcast, Leading Edge's Co-Founder and CFO, Kevin Gormley CFP®,CPA aka "The Professor" covers all the details of the new increased Child Tax Credit as well as the existing credit. Plus, everything you need know to NOT be surprised at tax time!

Check out this Wall Street Journal article on the Child Tax Credit!

Check out our recent post on Tax Deductions

Podcast Transcription:

Voice: ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard the pilot money guys podcast, where our mission is to help clients build and protect wealth to achieve their dreams. And. This podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning without further ado, here is your host Robert equity

Rob Eklund: tip of the cap, Tia and welcome to the pilot money guys. Ad hoc special edition podcast regarding child tax credits. I'm your host, Rob Macklin. Joining me today. We are lucky enough to have certified financial planner and CPA. Kevin Gormley, nicknamed the professor. Which isn't too original as he used to be a professor, but still he's known to pontificate around the leading edge campus.

And he looks like a young Jim Gaffigan lives in Tennessee, loves long walks on the beach and usually has a good bourbon with it. Welcome Kevin.

Kevin Gormley: Hey Robin. Yeah. It's, it's great to be here with you guys. A big, big fan boy of the pilot money guys. First time, long time and all that other crap.

Rob Eklund: Perfect. Perfect.

We got a, of course we've got anchoring. The podcast is our financial wonder. Boy, Ben Dickinson. Welcome Ben. Good to be

Ben: here. Anchoring it down. Like keeping it anchored. I like it. Charlie is out. Charlie's out. Charlie's out. Kevin's in. And this is a good time.

Rob Eklund: Good crew the crew. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let's jump into it.

We've got a little airline news. This is an ad hoc, uh, podcast. We just brought it out because the child tax credits, if you're getting payments from the IRS, or if you make less than $400,000, you might want to tune in. But first we're going to jump into airline news. Ben, what do you got?

Ben: Airline news. So I, this, this one might not, might be debatable whether this is airline news, but this is, this is sort of aviation news.

Uh, maybe more rocket. Our man rocket, the myth, the legend, Jeff Bezos, rocketed into space, debatable. Whether he actually made it to space. I think there's been some debate on that. I know he went fat farther than Branson. Well, what are you guys saying, Nick? Did he make a space?

Rob Eklund: I don't know. Did he? Well, I can tell you it's not an astronaut.

At least the FAA says he can't wear the wings. No, can't

Ben: agree.

Kevin Gormley: He's like, why not? Why not Rob? Why can't he wear the wings? He

Rob Eklund: says, uh, passengers can't can't wear the wings. And unless you've demonstrate activities during the flight that were essential to public safety or contributing, attributed to human space, flight safety, he wasn't a pilot.

He wasn't commanding it. He wasn't working on it. Really. He was just passenger. So no wings for him,

Ben: man. No rings for you also just couldn't. It had one button that they had to press just to get the wings. I mean, they could have, he really should've thought of that. If he's this genius, billionaire, come on, just add one button in there,

Rob Eklund: cowboy hat for crying out loud, you should get the wings.

Kevin Gormley: You should get the wings at the blue, the cowboy.

, Rob, I do have a question for you. Um, has he, has he been up higher?

Oh, yeah, it's a little it's a little bit. Yeah.

Rob Eklund: Yeah. Tap out about 41,000 for myself.

Ben: He, how high did he go? I mean,

Rob Eklund: I was able to make it Branson. That's always a good thing,

Ben: right? Yes. Yes. Um, the billionaires like to get after each other, which I appreciate as a, as a simpleton, uh, here, I, I, I don't mind, I don't mind doing this, this.

I dunno exactly.

Rob Eklund: Did he really get the space Branson that is? Did he really make it? I don't know.

Ben: W we, we were debating before this, about the Karman line, uh, that Kevin was talking about to us. Uh, the Karman line apparently is a unofficially official line of S of, uh, where space begins. Yeah. I'm not sure.

Kevin Gormley: Yeah. Ben, it's a, it's a little known fact. That Theodore Von Karman actually established the Karman line. And it's, it's somewhat, yes, it's somewhat of a nebulous, uh, amount, but it's 50 miles up or roughly 80 kilometers. I don't know, 80 kilometers. That doesn't sound like very much, but, uh, that's, that's where the space line allegedly begins.

And I know, uh, Bezos was making fun of Brandon. And, uh, you know, look, I'm afraid to go, uh, even 30,000 feet. So I'm not making fun of any of these guys. The interesting part for me though, is a lot of people are like, well, how does this space flight solve world hunger? Like, you know, how does this solve world hunger?

How does this solve other problems? And I'm like, I don't really care. It was pretty cool to watch.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I go hungry and watch the show.

Kevin Gormley: I mean, what are the aviators think? Rob? What's been the, what's been the scuttlebutt around, uh, aviators, as far as all this. Do you even care?

Rob Eklund: I don't think we care too much, but maybe I'm wrong. I have, I've only flown a few, a few, uh, flights, uh, since it's happened, but I don't think we care too much other than we like to make fun of.

Maybe the shape of the rocket and whatnot, but

Kevin Gormley: yeah,

Ben: it was a little Dr. Evil, Alaska, no one, but

Rob Eklund: he's got some big windows like it. Excellent. Anything else? Any other aviation S news. I know United bots and planes, or is it planning to buy a lot of planes? Like 200 Max's

Ben: yeah. So that's exciting. I mean, hopefully it happens.

There's always, always some risks around. I'm not even gonna say the name of the plane. I don't want to jinx anything, but don't say, but yeah. Yeah, besides that, I mean, we, we, uh, luckily we, we recorded, uh, our, our last podcast here. What last was it? Last week? I think it was last what? Yeah. And so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, not too much going on since then, maybe some, some different, uh, different fuel shortage, potential issues I saw on the west coast, but, uh, for the most part, it looks like things are going pretty smooth.

Um, how are the flights in Southwest? So you're,

Rob Eklund: they're, they're busy. Things are crazy right now. Uh, you know, I think the airlines are hopping, so hopefully that continues, uh, through the, through the Delta variant and all that good stuff, but we'll see. Absolutely. We'll see. Absolutely awesome. Sounds good.

Let's move it along. Uh, before we get to the exciting stuff, let us remind you. This podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning. We are fiduciary fee only advisors, and we want to know what keeps you up. When you were thinking about your finances, what questions do you have about your retirement savings?

Life insurance policies long-term care options, or estate planning, or why we call it? Ben Caldwell, give us a jingle 8 6 5 2 4 0 2 2 2 9 2 2 8 6 5 2 4 0 2 9 2 2. It's up to you to get these facets of your life in order or not. You decide to get a handle on these issues. We can help that's enough of that.

Mr. Professor. Kevin Gormley let's get into the child tax credits.

Kevin Gormley: Yes, sir. Um, so I think I'll just start out by saying I had more conversations during this tax season about people's kids and basically what their kids were worth to them. Um, because we talked a little bit about if a kid's a, you know, when I say kids 17, 18, 19 years old should be claimed as dependence and or should file themselves.

All the kids want. That money that was out there. So when we talk about taxes, we talk about tax credits and everybody goes to sleep. Uh, if somebody mentions that you might get some of that free money, all of a sudden everyone wakes up and that's really what this is about. This is about, uh, either that free money or maybe having to pay back money if you are a high income person.

So, so that's really how I would frame this discussion. If you're high income, you may not be getting some of these, uh, these friends.

Rob Eklund: Yeah. I feel like Ben should insert the little clip from Jerry Maguire. Show me the money right there

Ben: to meet the money. I just cause we met just because you make a lot of money.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't get any free money. I mean, come on. Right? Right. Well basis to get some free money to

Rob Eklund: you probably don't well, I don't mean to sidetrack you here, but for our listeners, um, who don't know that much about taxes, can you just explain real quick, the difference between a tax credit and a tax deduction kind of different.

Kevin Gormley: Well, uh, I'll give it a shot. I hope I can explain it. Uh, but a tax deduction lowers your taxable income. So if you have a hundred thousand dollars of tax in taxable income, you have a $2,000 deduction, a hundred minus two is 98,000. And so you still have to pay taxes on that income, but a tax credit. Wow. A tax credit is if you have a hundred thousand dollars of income and you're going to pay $20,000 of tax.

The credit actually will reduce your tax dollar for dollar. So the credits is really where we come in and we say, uh, you owe a $20,000, no check that you owe $16,000. And so it can be like a four, $5,000 difference when you have credits.

Rob Eklund: Very nice. Excellent. Awesome.

Ben: So the tax credit, I've got a letter here that was sent by none other than the president directly.

Not me. That's a Charlie handwritten from what I can tell. Very good to handwriting, very clear, almost looks at times new Roman. Um, it kind of goes over some of these details, estimate some stuff. What's going on with this child. I don't have a kid, so this doesn't, this doesn't help me at all. But unfortunately, yet I'm thinking now though, I should start having a bunch of kids just so I can get these, these credits.

Rob Eklund: Well, I'm absolutely be

Kevin Gormley: a bad idea. I'm absolutely not going to touch that one. Cause that sounds like a political hot potato. But, um, but yeah, the thing is, is, uh, you know, I don't know how much children crock cost to raise. Uh, Costa rays, but, um, you know, I've heard, I've heard a million dollars over your lifetime.

I've heard other numbers as well. And so at tax time, we actually might get something for having children and that's really what these tax credits are about. So, so Ben, when, uh, the tax law changed, I think it was in 2017 or 18. Uh, they changed things where people even making up to $400,000, married, filing jointly could now get child tax credits.

Now other things were lost, but I'm not going to go into that. But, uh, so it's $2,000 per child that are under the age of 17 or 16 or less at the end of the year. So, uh, when the kids are over, then set older than 17. Uh, you only get $500. So what ends up happening with a lot of our clients who are high income is one year, uh, they don't know much tax the next year they owe a lot of tax and then they say, I think our CPA did something wrong here, Kevin.

Yeah. And they call me and they say, uh, are you sure this is right? And I say, let's take a look at it. And then we find, well, uh, you have two children that are now over the age, so you're no longer getting all these calls. So, uh, so anyway, that's really, there is a great benefit to having the child tax credits you, you saved money.

Rob Eklund: And I think that was a, the tax cuts and jobs act of 2017. They raised it from a thousand to 2000. So we're already moving the right direction,

Kevin Gormley: right? I am. Yeah, that's good, man. I love when people pull out that, uh, uh, legislative language there. Thank you, Rob.

Rob Eklund: My brother's

Kevin Gormley: a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. So, so really what's happened in, in 2021.

Um, and this, this sounds like I'm an infomercial here, but for one year only for just one year only, uh, you get, yeah, you get extra, you get extra money. So, um, but, but there's lots of caveats as always. So if you, if you are a single and you make $75,000 or less adjusted, gross income, Uh, head of household 112,500 or less, uh, again, just a gross income.

We won't go into what that is or married, filing jointly 150,000 or less. Uh, you will get per child. Now you'll get $3,000 if they are 17 and below in 2021. So for one year only, it's not 16. It's now 17. And then if the kids are five or younger, You would get $3,600 in a child tax credit. So, um, now that caveat of $150,000 married, filing jointly and single 75 or less, um, I don't know what you guys think about how many clients we have that actually, uh, make less than that.

But it ain't many.

Rob Eklund: No, not, not a lot for us. Uh, but you know, those younger pilots out there, they're hitting that. They're below that 150 in, in, during COVID times, you know, some of our other clients, I think might've been a hundred below, 150. And depending on what the IRS is looking at there, they might've thought, oh, well, they make less than 150 based on their 20, 20, uh, income and or their two.

Yeah. Or 2020, income. So we're gonna give them this, tax credit, something

Kevin Gormley: like that. Right. Yeah, Rob. So, uh, what was really interesting last year? Interesting to a tax geek that is so take that with a grain of salt, is that sometimes like 2000, right now it's 2020 tax return. If he didn't file a 2020 tax return, it's the 2019 tax.

Yeah. So for people that actually made more in 20, sometimes it's better to not file your tax return. And we did a lot of that. Um, I don't really want to call it gaming the system. I like to call it a tax smart planning, but, uh, some could perceive it to be gaming the system, but it's based on 2020 tax return.

If you did not file one, which I did not file my own tax return yet it then is based on 2009.

Rob Eklund: Gotcha. So just kind of to summarize a little bit the American recovery act, which is in 2021, raised it from that 2000 to 3000. If we're just talking, uh, 17 and under now.

So you can, uh, you got the tax credit of $3,000. If you're 1700, unless you're under six and it's 3,600. Is that per child? Is that.

Kevin Gormley: Yeah, exactly. So let me, let me take it a different way here. Uh, frame it a different way. You still get your $2,000 per child. If they're 17 or younger, you then get that super bonus 2021, a APA, extra thousand dollars.

So, and the reason why I say this and it's called an enhanced credit, Rob is because if you make over $150,000, that enhanced part starts to go away. If you're married, filing joint, But you need to make over $400,000 before that $2,000 starts to phase out. Gotcha.

Rob Eklund: Okay. Fantastic. Now for those people that did make under 150 or maybe didn't file in 2020, and they saw, uh, an IRS, payment in July, how in the heck did they calculate it?

Kevin Gormley: Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to make fun of myself as I always do. And mentioned that on July 16th, I looked at my own bank account and said, what's this $167. And so, um, I, I didn't, I didn't expect it, but what the IRS ended up doing is they said, all right, you're going to get this amount of tax credit.

We're going to divide that amount by, of tax credit by 12. And then we're going to pay it over six weeks. So Ben, I don't know if there's an easier way to say it than that, but boy, that sure is confusing. How would you, how would you say that? Only the IRS.

Rob Eklund: Yeah.

Ben: Maybe I'm just trying to ask a question with this, but so you're you get, you get half of essentially what you should be getting as the credit, if you, if over the next six months and then at tax time, is that going to come in the form of a refund or, or potentially reduce the amount you owe?

Is that right? Based on half of what you should be

Kevin Gormley: getting well, that that's, that's sorta correct, but I'm not really sure what you said. Uh, Rob, where you, where are you tracking that? Um, yeah,

Rob Eklund: , I think I tracked it. You get 50% of the credit that you would've got when you filed your taxes the next year during April, or whenever you file, but you're going to get that over the last thing.

You're going to get a prepaid over the next six months from July to December, you're getting that 50% broken up. Six payments is that Kevin,

Kevin Gormley: is that what you're tracking? That, that that's perfect. So let's, let's give an example. Examples are always easy. So let's say that you're going to get $2,000. You're you're over the $150,000 in whatever tax return.

So you're going to get $2,000. They will pay you a thousand dollars from July till December, and then next year, when you file your tax return, you get the other thing.

Ben: But what is the cause I was hearing that there is the major confusion point with these are the big challenge for some people is you may be getting these payments and then not expect that you're going to owe more in taxes or, or get more money back. Can you explain that part of the confusion there?

Yeah.

Kevin Gormley: Yeah. So the, uh, the most evil words in taxes is claw-back claw-back is always things that, uh, make, uh, everybody upset. And it, it particularly makes people that prepare taxes upset because we always get blamed. So if you were to get that thousand dollars extra, or let's say it's 1500, let's say, let's say you made a hundred thousand dollars in 2020.

And now you joined Southwest airlines and you're flying a lot of premium trips. And so now all of a sudden your income is I'm just going to make this up 450,000. So, so you went from making a hundred thousand to 450,000. So that, that thousand $500 that you got an advance.

You got to pay all that back when you do your 2021 tax return. So not only do you not get that 3000, you have to pay back 1500 when you arrive at your final destination of filing your tax return.

Ben: Yeah. What about you think there would be any penalties or anything on that if, if you have to pay it back.

Kevin Gormley: So I told you the most evil words and tax, I'll tell you the most friendly words in tax and that's safe. And so there is actually a safe Harbor where you'll not have any penalties on that you're doing, unless, unless you're, uh, unless you're cheating the IRS and you lie about something. But no, there's, there's no, there's no issues with that.

It's again, it's going to be when you file your taxes, uh, the, if you're married, the spouses are going to look at each other and say, uh, oh man, we all, all this money.

Rob Eklund: If I'm, if I'm, uh, thinking of this correctly, Kevin and Ben, uh, if I'm gonna make, if the last year I made less than 150,000, and this year I'm going to make over 150,000 and I'm getting those IRS payments, then I better be real careful what I do with that money.

I might want to, you can go, there's a couple things you can do, right, Kevin, and you could go on and go onto the IRS website and register and do all that, uh, get through that process. And then. Or you can probably put that money aside and make sure you don't touch it. Maybe make a little interest on it and then get ready to pay that come tax time next year.

Kevin Gormley: Yeah. So my, my advice to everybody is not to do anything, not to go cancel it, especially now that it's after July 15th, because you know, people will say, well, I got to check in the mail. I'm going to send it back. Please. Don't do any of that. Just to just accept the money as an interest free loan. If you get them.

And then at tax time, you, you basically end up settling up at tax time. So, uh, but, but yes, to answer your question, if you're, if you're getting, uh, you know, too much money, quote unquote, you could save that money and be prepared to pay some taxes next year. But of course, Rob, no one does that. Everybody gets the money and spends it.

And that's the whole reason why we, uh, we are getting this free money, which is not at all free because it's going to be on our taxes next year. Yeah.

Rob Eklund: Well little savings account, then what would you do with

Ben: it? What would I do with it? You know what I would do, I would throw it all into

Rob Eklund: not dose

Ben: on the rise, but,, I wouldn't do that.

I don't know. I think maybe a person that would, that likes you to refund back and this is just behavioral, but, and this is another thing just to think about, some people just. Hate owing on th on their taxes. And I agree the interest free loan , is exactly what you probably should do.

Um, you know, really take it, take advantage of it. But, um, if you're a person that hates to have to owe money, I would definitely consider turning that off. Or, I mean, is it worth it maybe up in any sort of withholding at all, just in case, uh, if you are getting that, would that be smart at all?

Rob Eklund: That could be a tactic.

Kevin Gormley: Yeah. So the more money you withhold, the less money you pay a tax time. Uh, so, um, that is absolutely a tactic and for certain people, uh, if they, if they get, if they don't get a refund, they're very upset. So, uh, But, you know, like you said, Ben, you should never overpay your taxes. You know, you can never be too thin.

You can never be too rich and, uh, you should never overpay your taxes. I think I just made up a third one. Yeah.

Rob Eklund: Nice. So, uh, again, not too many people listening probably are in this category, but if you do fall into that category where you're making really close to that 150,000, you should probably think to get to take advantage of these child tax credits.

So you want to get your ink. Lower than that 150,000. If you're close, if you're within, you know, maybe 10,000, maybe you've got a better number there, Kevin. Right.

Kevin Gormley: So Rob, the phase out starts, uh, at 150,000 and I think, I think that's just a great point for tax planning. Is, uh, you know, you don't always need to know their tax rules, but find yourself a tax geek that knows the tax rules.

And there are times that by, you know, and maybe you put a little bit more, more money in your 401k, or maybe you do something, maybe you give away a little bit more money in that year to lower your adjusted gross income. So you can be eligible for certain things. I think that's always a good thing.

Strategy.

Rob Eklund: Yeah. Things like IRA contributions, health savings accounts, those kinds of things. Yeah. Key. And that's where professor Gormley can really help all your tax for bedroom. Like it. Awesome. You haven't what else you got on this topic? Yeah, I know. It's really dense and there's a ton we could talk about, but uh, what

Kevin Gormley: else you have?

Yeah. So just a few things, maybe the top five things to know about this is, uh, if you're, if your kids are older than 18, Uh, you're out of luck. They're only worth $500 to you. Uh, maybe, maybe they're worth a little bit more, but if they're 18 or over in 2021, it goes back to 17 and 22, they're only worth $500.

, if, if children are claimed by another person, Sometimes we have mixed families. Well, obviously you're not going to be getting the tax credit in advance, but you would still get it. If you're going to claim that child, if you yourself are dependent on someone else, I would love to be a dependent on Jeff Bezos if he's listening.

But if you're a dependent on someone else, Yeah. Uh, if you have a brand new baby, uh, you're not going to get the advanced tax credit because the IRS is not aware. Congratulations on your brand new baby. Uh, you do, as they say in the tax business, you have a new deduction and in this case, a new child tax credit.

Um, and then the other thing is if your children are five or younger in 2021, you could get this, uh, you know, $3,600. You know, some of the websites where I've read, they talk about winning the lottery. If you have a really young child and you could get that 3,600, but for the most part, and here's the final takeaway point is most of our clients that we work with, Rob, this will not affect, right?

Because they make too much money and I'd love to discuss in another podcast, what making too much money means, because I sure say it a lot and nobody ever knows what the heck I'm saying. When I say it, you make too much money. They're like, Yeah, put it on the

Rob Eklund: books. Gavin, I like it. Ben, any, any final thoughts?

Ben: Just, just rethinking, uh, the new kids situation now. Um, I'm really seeing the dollar value in them. Um, you know, feed them cheap. That's what I'm going to say. And that way you can really, really make some money off of this tax credit. Um, but, uh, but no, no. It's good, great information.

It's that? And the fact that it's automated is definitely something to be aware of. You're getting it whether you want to or not, you have to pay it back.

Rob Eklund: So, yeah. Kevin, did you finish your, finish your thoughts there? You got some more,

Kevin Gormley: well, I have 16 more cards to go through, but I think, um, I think I'm good, Rob.

Rob Eklund: Perfect. All right. That's it. We're going to leave you with an anti quote today because we've been doing a lot of, uh, regular quotes, financial. This, one's not so much of a financial quilt, but it could be. And it's this from Mario Andretti. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

Anyways, anything, any thoughts on that? Ben,

Ben: you know, just, I guess I, maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not smart enough, but I'd rather be in control than going too fast where I'm out of

Rob Eklund: control. Definitely not a way to fly a plane.

Kevin Gormley: I don't think. Yeah. For, for our younger viewers, um, Mario Andretti was a race card. Yeah.

Ben: Yeah,

Kevin Gormley: I've used, I've used quotes from Mario Andretti and people have said, ah, what the hell is he talking about?

Ben: . That's it? We've reached our final destination on this ad hoc special edition of the pilot money guys podcast.

Rob Eklund: If you like, what you do. Hit the subscribe button. If you have any topics you want us to cover, you can contact me@robertleadingedgeplanning.com or info@leadingedgeplanning.com. Remember, as Emerson said, the world makes way for those to know where they're going. So you may want to plan accordingly. Thank you for listening.


Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 08/02/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.
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I’ve Inherited Money, Now What?

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Hello folks! We are excited because this is the first podcast in a 3-part series called “I’m Dead, Now What?”. That’s right, we are covering the exciting topic of death!

  • I've Inherited Money, Now What? – Should you spend it, save it, tax implications, your family legacy?
  • I’m Dead, Now What? – A discussion on estate planning. How can you pass on money to your heirs in the most tax-efficient manner possible?
  • I’m Disabled, Now What? – A discussion on becoming disabled during your career. What if you lose your medical? How much income will you have to live on? For how long?

    Although a very difficult subject to face, these topics are important to plan around. In this first podcast of the series, we discuss what happens when you inherit money. We talk about the emotional decisions that must be made, the tax consequences, and how we believe inheritances should be handled.

We’re thankful for the feedback we have received on the Pilot Money Guys podcast. We are striving to bring useful insight on important financial topics to you. If you have suggested topics, questions, or comments for us, please email us at info@leadingedgeplanning.com.

See you next time!

I've Inherited Money...
Charlie: ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard the pilot money guys podcast, where our mission is to help clients build and protect wealth to achieve their dreams and goals. This podcast is brought to you by leading edge financial planning without further ado. Here is your host, Robert.

Rob: Tip of the cap to you.

Thank you for joining us at the pilot money guys. Welcome to you. We're going to be doing a new, uh, series and it's gonna be a three-part series. So hang with us here. It's called I'm dead. Now. What? Part one of that we're going to be doing again, three of those, the second uplifting,

Charlie: uplifting series.

Rob: Yeah. I can tell everyone's really excited on the edge of their seats right now.

Click, turn it

Charlie: off.

Rob: Darn it. Um, episode two or flight two, if you will, will be I'm dead now. What, excuse me, let me back up episode ones. I've inherited money now. What? But it's all part of the somebody

Charlie: dead. If somebody. Yeah, I'm inheriting money. You're not

Rob: dead and I'm dead now. What? And the third one is I can't now what?

We're, I'm disabled now. One. Yeah. Wow.

Charlie: That's it. Which is, yeah, maybe it's wrong. Maybe I'm just messed up, but I'm excited about this year.

Rob: Well, we all know you're a little messed up then. Yeah, that's perfect. All right. Hey, I'm your host, Rob, back then. We've got been depicted. The advisor, Mr. Cowbell. And of course Charlie Mattingly, certified financial planner, the godfather, we got it.

We got us all here. All three of us. Uh, we're missing mark today, but uh, we're ready. Ready? What do we got for aviation news? Ben. Charlie, what do you got? Ben, Charlie

Charlie: Ben. Well, first we've got to one of these days. We'll have to give you a call sign. I've just been thinking about that. Well, that's Lisa, she's the bullet.

Oh, she's bulldog. Yeah. You're the MC MC hammer. Oh, there we go. That might be all right. Hammer. The hammer

Rob: standardization, evaluation pilot. So, oh, I

Charlie: need a hammer for sure. Yeah. So

Rob: a soft hammer. Yeah, exactly.

Charlie: Like a rubber mallet

Rob: or something. Santa Claus,

Charlie: wherever from the ballot. So Ben, you start us off today because you've looked more into this one than I have, or so you've said anyway, about this trans air flight 8 1 0 that ditched in the water in Hawaii.

What's up with that? Yeah, no, uh, pretty crazy. I was, uh, when I woke up in the morning, uh, after the, I think it was like July 2nd or something, I woke up and saw, saw the news. Uh, pretty, pretty wild. Um, it looks like it was a cargo plane, um, out of Honolulu that, that crash had it, or had a ditch into the, uh, the water at about one, uh, one or 2:00 AM local time there.

And luckily the two people on board, the captain copilot were, rescued and were safe. First officer. Yeah, first officer, I'm sorry. You know, I'm still learning guys. I'm still learning. Um, but they were rescued by the coast guard. So good on them, obviously, a pretty crazy experience. I was telling you, you guys, before we started that.

You know, one thing as me just not being a pilot or knowing much about it, I was like Landon water. I didn't realize it would tear up the plane like it did. And, uh, give them such a hard time, but it looks like there was debris field, a huge debris field and everything, uh, that for the coast guard to have to spot them in.

But, uh, yeah, pretty crazy. Thank God everybody survived. Um, absolutely double engine malfunction. I, I don't, I'm not exactly sure. Yeah. Is that, does that, what you all T engine? Yeah, they lost one. And then, uh, they S they were talking to air traffic controller and they said, Hey, we're going to lose the other one.

We think we're going to, you know, I guess it was overheating. Plus the plane was like 30 years old. I believe it was. Boeing 7 37, not 200, not a max, not a max, not a max. Uh, that's what the article kept saying. Stressing, not a max. Yeah. So those things and, and I'm thinking maybe that's why it broke apart as well, you know, but anyway, no, I think it's very difficult on an airplane when you hit the water because you're hitting it at an angle.

It's very, very difficult to land completely flat, which is what you might be envisioning. But, um, we rarely practice. Um, multi-engine or, or a complete engine failure, Robin. I think they, they, I, it, Southwest. Anyway, they talked about doing it. You may have just done it at your recent SIM, but when I was there, we never did it.

We had a, like a memory item, but we never practiced it. So you all just practiced, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Rob: In the air force, we practiced it quite a bit. It seems like. Yeah. But for Southwest, we just practiced in this last AQP

Charlie: session. Yeah. Are, are there, uh, are there emergency exits in the cockpit? It's called a window.

Yep. There's window windows.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Yep. You got windows. Do you have ropes ropes coming out, coming out of the windows? Oh my God. Yeah. The technology they got these days. It's crazy. It's crazy.

Rob: Crazy. Yeah. That was funny. It's a 7 37, 200. Thank goodness. Both pilots survived

Charlie: They were the only two people on there. So that was. You know good because who knows what would've happened? Had somebody been in back because it did break apart, like you said. .

Rob: Yeah. What else, what else? You got anything? So,

Charlie: so the next bullet here, I'm looking at my notes and, um, I guess these are shown notes, right? As what we'll call these things. Yes. So I've got what's going on with the airlines and why do they suck so bad?

Right?

Rob: Oh, I'm not lying.

Charlie: Oh my goodness. It's uh, it's pretty crazy out there. Let me give you. Rob the non-pilot perspective now in, and a passenger being Ben or passengers now. So then you can give us the, the insider, but, um, you know, we were stuck in, when we came to visit you if a couple of weeks ago, you know, we got stuck, right.

We got, I suppose, to take off, we're supposed to land at our, uh, in Knoxville at 1130. We in Atlanta, I think I walked into the door, Ben and his. Girlfriend were kind enough to drop me off. I've walked in and got in bed probably about 5 38. So that was painful instead of about in 30 minutes. But anyway, that was, that was whether there was a lot of weather in the Midwest.

There was weather and yeah, so, uh, it was painful, but people are, you know, testy in the airports. Uh, now, especially they have mask on everybody's kind of angry, whatever, but I will tell you that. I'll look at this as like a business kind of thing. And then you can give me the other side, but I just can't imagine running a business.

And at one month it seems like you're trying to offload as many employees as you can, to, to stiff arm bankruptcy, to, uh, just not run out of money. And in fact, every airline would have run out of money. It had it not been for the government, but, um, so one month you're doing that. The next. You got full airplanes again?

I mean, again, I'm exaggerating a little bit with this full, , next month thing, but man, a laugh, can you imagine not to mention getting everybody back instantaneously, it's not going to happen. There's still lots of unemployment benefits out there that people are on and, um, maybe affect the motivation to return to work.

However, getting a bunch of pilots. You know, is, um, is not easy because everybody needs to get retrained. Yeah , I made the call to get all the captains back. What, when was that call maiden? April, may. And then they said, come back in July. So there's some lag time just on the callback alone, not to mention the training, but right.

Rob: Yeah. It's, it's, it's crazy out there right now. Uh, Ben, you, you were in the airport, you saw it, right?

Charlie: Yeah, it was so crowded. I mean, everyone's, everyone's going on vacation traveling around right now, schools. I mean with school out and everything too, I think. Uh, but yeah, it, it was wild. We saw some, some altercations, actually a flight I had before this one to Denver.

Uh, the last one that was a couple months ago, but there was a mask incident on, on my plan. Uh, and it was just like people. Are so wild up right now. It seems like with this, uh, everything that's going on and, and I mean, like our flight, Charlie, luckily we had you there cause I was probably getting pretty frustrated, but uh, you know, I mean, it's weather.

I mean, what, what can you do? There's nothing that you can do. I mean, they have to wait, wait it out. Luckily we got to get to our destination that night, but,

Rob: um, you know, it's tough, right? It's not cool. You got to kind of have the perfect storm. Uh, you've got, yeah, you got weather and those kinds of things that we're used to dealing.

But use most of the time of the airlines is fully, you know, fully functioning. And right now they're not even close to fully functioning. You've got that. Then you've got the airports that are packed. Cause there's all this pent up demand, like you said, vaccines are going great. Everyone's recovering. Um, so you have all that pent up demand.

And like you said, summertime kids, right school. Let's go. Unfortunately, the flip side of that is that, like you said, there's so many benefits out there from code. That you know, the airports aren't, aren't fully functioning either. Not, not, not to talk about the airlines, but also the airports are, I think, I think the airports are actually functioning worse than the airlines.

If you can even imagine that. Um, and it's an index across the board. It's not just, I would love to point the finger. Yeah. One airline or another, but I think it's across the board. Um, I don't know anyone who's doing really, really well right now.

Charlie: Yeah. It's a matter of who can. Who can suck them the least, right?

Yeah. In the airline world, who's the least terrible. Who's the least terrible, but, but you're right. And you go to the airports. There's no, you can't get food. , some of these places aren't open because they don't have any workers in there

yeah. It's a tough time. We're gonna have to just, just suck it up for a while. Right. But it's a wall street journal article that, uh, that I was looking at to prepare for this as, uh, aviation consultant at McKinsey said, airlines had to make choices about summer staffing before they knew how quickly the man would come back.

Many of those decisions were made at a time when we, as a country, Optimistic about the recovery of air travel. That's, that's his, uh, his opinion now, Rob, you know, you, and I've talked to that day was like, well, you can't necessarily just give the airlines a pass either, you know?

Rob: Yeah. .

That's one of those things. Well, if that were true, why did you schedule so many flights? Like, yeah, I mean, yeah, up at the top, it's a different ball game, but you're trying to, you know, schedule flights and then you can pair back and obviously you don't pair back when there's all that demand. So yeah, it's tough.

And

Charlie: it's not easy. You may have to start flying again. Yeah. Sorry. No, they're not that desperate. I promise you.

Rob: , . All right. Anything else on the, uh, aviation news? Okay. Well, moving along, we've got, uh, you know, just a quick break here. We're before we jump into the I've inherited money.

Now, what we're fiduciary fee only advisors. This is brought to you by leading edge planning. If you need, if you have a question you need, uh, some financial planning help re you can reach us at 8 6 5 2 4 0 2 2 9 2 or that good old electronic mail we've been talking about. At info@leadingedgeplanning.com.

All right. Okay.

Charlie: Right on. I bet. Ben, I've been, your phone has blown up since the last podcast, mostly with spammers spam calls, but yes, it has your stuff. Love it. Yup. Yup. You can't talk to a lot of people that have inherited money from princes. Exactly what money from you? Yeah. Yeah. That's always interesting.

They always want my credit card.

Rob: Mother's maiden name. All right, let's do this. I've inherited money now. What Charlie, what do I do

Charlie: now? All right here. Here I go. Let's say you inherit a million bucks, man. I'm going to quit my job. I'm going here.

I inherited a million bucks. Well, that's a, if we, if we look at the 4% rule, what's that about $40,000 of income per year before tax. So, you know, a million bucks, that's a lot of money. It really is. And I'm not scoffing at that bunny by any stretch. But sometimes I think in our minds we might go, oh my goodness.

That's, uh, that it changes everything. I'm quitting, I'm quitting. I'm going to print a vacation will not really right. , I think that is the emotional thing that sticks out in my mind for the most. What about, what about you guys?

Rob: Yeah, I, I think it's one of those things.

Yeah. A lot of times you get that, you get that windfall, if you will. And people are thinking, okay, I've got this money. I'm also hurting because I probably was pretty close to the person I just lost. Yeah. And they wanted me to have this money. So, um, it seems like a lot, like you said, that 4% rule in the millions 40,000 that's, that's not a lot of money, but you can't think of it like that.

Most people are thinking, oh, I've got a million dollars. This is great. And I think that's where people can get themselves in. Um, one of the statistics I came across was by it from, uh, Elizabeth O'Brien, I guess one study found that a third of the people who received an inheritance had negative savings within two years of the event.

So even if they were great savers beforehand, you get this money, this million dollars and the budget they were on and their spending habits kind of go out the way. Because they've got this million dollars, they maybe don't have an exact plan for it. So they're just kind of spending and going along and you can outspend your income easily, even when it's an inheritance.

So yeah, I think they, they get into that trap. And then all of a sudden, you know, at some point that inheritance has gone and not only have they lost that inheritance money, but they've lost the good spending habits. So they really get themselves into kind of a bind. They're being deliberate with whatever inheritance you have.

Charlie: , , I think you have to write down your goals I've got to send my kids to college. We have his house payment when they really start digging and going, these are all the expenses that I'm going to incur in my lifetime. You can almost attribute, , that money to the, to the goals and. And again, you get to see how far it goes or doesn't go.

And then you get a real, a reality check on how much is it. We really have, how much is it? We really have left over to spend after all those goals are accounted for. And part of that goal process is going, whoa. If I save this money and invest it , at a reasonable rate, how much income will I have when I am ready to.

You know, I think those are just absolutely critical to do.

Rob: Yeah. I think you're exactly right. I think you, if you've already are talking to a, you know, a good fiduciary financial. You're probably on some kind of a financial order checklist or a financial order of operations or whatever you want to call it, that goes through those priorities. And you can just fit that money right into those priorities, if you want, you know, um, it, it's a, it's one of those things.

If you've already thought about it, you already have goals written down. Like you said, Charlie, and you already know what you're working towards this money. It can go right towards it. It doesn't have to be anything new or special.

Charlie: I think the closest thing I've seen to this , and again, we've we just had clients last week told us they inherited some money, but they're like you said, they're the ones you just said, Rob, they are on track.

They've got their goals, all laid out. They knew exactly where this is what really a surprise, but they're not going to go. You know, do something too crazy. They're going to have some fun enjoy that. That's great. But the closest thing I've seen to this, um, in a negative way is someone that I was close to.

And in fact, a family distant family member, their husband, her husband passed away at an early age and they thought he had plenty of life insurance, , Hey S 500,000 sounded like a ton of money and it is a lot of money.

. But when you start to take inventory, , her kids are going to private high school. That was very important to her. That's what her family had done for generations. Then they got to go to college. She needs to retire at some point and she needs, , she's, doesn't want to cut her lifestyle in half or have to sell it.

That $500,000 was, was accounted for really quickly, ? And, it was pretty amazing, , that's just one of the things that I saw firsthand, a couple other things that I think are really important if this happens, , and if you're anticipating this happening is that things may become important.

Now, planning wise that weren't important before, such as uh, estate planning. You know now, uh, have this inheritance, is it going to be protected when I pass away? Maybe that was an issue before, maybe it wasn't, maybe it just became an issue because now, , have a whole lot more money, uh, liability.

Thanks. , w what kind of liability risks do I have out there? , if somebody gets injured on my property, if somebody's driving my kid's car, or my child wrecks my car, , or am I going to get sued now? They're just much more at risk is what I'm saying. So there's a couple of other things to think about, and I know we're going to get into it in a minute, but taxes, you know, when you inherit it, you know, that's going to be a big issue.

Uh, maybe I should say, maybe we'll get into it, but what about. Again, when I pass it on to my children, I want to create a legacy for my family. You know, as I get older, I start thinking about that more than I did when I was, when I was Ben's age, you know, but I would love to raise my children and, and, uh, create a legacy.

And, and that takes a lot of work, a lot of responsibility and a lot of planning.

Rob: Absolutely.

But it's one of those things. I think it was at the notorious VIG set at the best.

Charlie: Oh, I love it. When you call me big Poppa,

sorry

Rob: that one also, but when you get all, you know, you get this windfall of money, you got to make sure, or one of the things you would want to make sure you don't got to do anything. You want to make sure that your taxes are covered. And I think , we're going to get into that.

But, Charlie tax consequences of inheritance.

Charlie: Yeah. So, , somebody out there listening and you're thinking, Hey, I'm, I'm possibly gonna going to inherit some money here in the near future, , parents or whatever, then, , you're probably wondering, Hey, am I going to owe taxes on this inheritance?

And the answer as always is it depends. Let's start with a very, very basic, uh, the easiest one. And that's the federal estate taxes. Let me back up even one more level and just define it. What the heck are death taxes. That term gets thrown around a lot. And, um, and I've kind of had to clarify that myself because it's some of the verbiage is like, well, what are you talking about?

You say death taxes, because I know we have inheritance taxes. We have a state taxes. Uh, what are death taxes? Well, death taxes is just a generic term to describe all of those. So we're going to talk today about mainly state, federal, and state. Uh, state taxes. I gotta, I gotta say that it's the federal state and federal, uh, estate taxes, and then there's an inheritance tax.

So we'll talk about those. Now the easiest one to delineate right off the bat is the federal estate tax. Right now, there is an exemption, meaning you're not going to pay any estate taxes. If you pass away and you have $11.7 million. Correct me if I'm going to say, oh yeah, let me double check my numbers.

$11.7 million. As of now that adjust each year to inflation as of now, or if you're married, it's $23 million. So in other words, Rob, you and Janet can leave me $23 million and you won't. Yes. Thank you. And you will not put here me. You will not, you will not pay any tax. Any federal taxes, state taxes. Okay.

Um, now what about Colorado? What about the state of Tennessee? If , if your S your, your son inherits that money in Colorado, he's not going to pay and your, your state is not going to pay a state taxes, because if you have less than 23 million, but is it going to pay, are you going to pay state estate taxes?

And, uh, Colorado let's see, are they on the list? I think they are not on the list for the state or inherited. Okay. So, you know, there are some states, in fact, there are a, I believe 12 states, that still have in a state or inheritance tax. Okay. So there's a little bit confusing. So let me explain again, the difference between estate and inheritance.

If you pass on an estate, Rob, then you're going to take in your house, your cars, your IRA, 401k. And they're going to add all that together. That's the value of your estate. Okay. Now, if you pass on a $10,000 to me, you know, then I'm going to pay. If I'm in one of those states, I'm going to pay an inheritance tax.

If that state, uh, ha has an inheritance tax. So a lot of states recently have gotten rid of those inheritance taxes, but I'm going to stop right there. Cause that's maybe very confusing. And maybe I didn't say that really well, but what do you think?

Rob: I think you got it, you know, you got the Federalist state taxes.

That's what most people are thinking about. And if you, uh, I think it was a flight too. We talked about, uh, the Biden tax plan and what might happen. And we've got that sunset, uh, a state tax exemption that basically is going to expire in 2025. And I believe. It will revert it back

but, uh, right now, if nothing, if, if nothing else happens and, and Congress doesn't act, or the president. It's going to expire and a revert back. So something that all of us who plan on living past 20, 25, want to think about is more estate planning because you know, that 23 million for, for couples ish, uh, will be, um,

Charlie: won't be exempt.

Won't be 23. Yeah. So, you know, there's a couple of things there I'll, I'll, uh, clean up a little bit. If you're again, if you're going to inherit some money, I'm from Kentucky. So Kentucky does have an inheritance tax. So let's say my mom leaves me some money. Well, I'm not going to have to pay inheritance tax because most of these states that have them, they have exclusions.

Like, uh, if you're passing it onto your children, then you're excluded. But if you're passing it onto your. They're going to pay some inheritance tax. Now, most people that if I'm going to leave money to my buddy and I'm from Kentucky, then I'm going to put in my will that just take the inheritance tax out of my money and then pass the rest onto my, my buddy.

That's usually how it would work. So there's a lot of exemptions in a varies wildly by state, but let's do talk about that sunset provision, Rob. Cause that's, that's really important because people go, wow. That, uh, you know, we don't have 23 million now, but it's, uh, the sunset provisions coming in and, you know, we might one day have a decent estate, you know what, meaning a lot of money.

So it's going to go down to a five point, basically 5.8 million per person, which is still a pretty good amount. And I can't remember what year it's reverting back to. I was like half it is half. It is still half you're. Right. It has happened and, and, and by the time 20 and that's adjusted to inflation. So by the time 20, 26 rolls around, it's going to be a little more than that.

Uh, but, but for today's discussion, it's going to revert back to $5.8 million per person, or about 11.6 million per married, couple. , so. If you have, let's do a quick example, let's say you're single and you have, your estate is worth 10 million. And after the sunset provision, uh, uh, 20, 26, you pass away and you leave 10 million you're exempted, uh, amount is 6 million.

So there's 6 million of the 10. I do not have to pay a state taxes on. Now, usually, I don't know what the, I can't remember what it's going to revert to, but usually above that exempted amount, you're going to pay anywhere between 35 and 45% tax rates.

So 10 million amount of 6 million, which is my exclusion leaves me for a million. Let's say it's 35% and I can't do the math that good, but let's say it's about two and a half million dollars. Check me on that. Ben. And, and so you're going to pay two and a half million dollars in estate taxes, which is disturbing to a lot of people because, oh, by the way, I've probably already paid tax on that money once.

So that's a little disturbing. So now we've got a lot of clients. Our average client range is probably in their fifties or early fifties, but we have some people that I think. , down the road, they very well could be in this, in this situation. If things don't change, , one day they might be looking at a state taxes and going, how can we avoid this and how can we prevent this?

That's the other part of that. So again, that's a lot of talking, but, uh, what do you guys have to fill in or add on to? Yeah, just say one thing that I've heard is just that, uh, the trust, you know, being, being used or coming back into favor, once those provisions come back in, um, I've heard that, you know, , a lot of people.

We'll start using trusts more to avoid those estate taxes. Um, and so, especially if you hadn't been considering that before, um, and, and you may be in the category, .

Yeah. Yeah. So let me address the trust because it's it's can be confusing now prior to like back in the Clinton administration and maybe even the early Bush administration, we had the exclusion again. Let's just say is 11.7 million per person. Back in the day, I remember flying with people and talking about this, cause it was, uh, it was low.

It was like a one and a half to 2 million. So even though that was back in the early two thousands or whatever, I still wasn't that much, because if you have an insurance policy, let's say you got a million dollar insurance policy, half a million dollar house, half a million dollar 401k, that's $2 million estate.

You know, if the exclusion is 1.5 million, I'm going to pay 45% of 500,000, which is about 200,000 in taxes. So again, I went through all that , really quick, but the point is more people were, were, um, included in that then they thought they were going to be so, um, So back then there were things called bypass trusts.

You know, there was a lot of very sophisticated, uh, state planning using trusts, but let me be clear right now, you cannot go out do just to your standard old, plain Jane living trust and think you're going to have it. Estate taxes. It's gotta be a very sophisticated bypass trust, which are basically irrevocable generation skipping , stuff that estate planning attorneys get into, you know, into a lot more detail.

They haven't done it in a long time because it's not been necessary as necessary that could come back into, into Vogue, so to speak. But I just want to be clear that a regular old trust has no tax benefit whatsoever . , but one of the things people used to do, if they had large estates, especially like, uh, back in the day, these farmers big farmers out in Midwest, let's say they had, they had a huge farms, all this equipment, and let's say the farm and the equipment was worth 10 million bucks.

But the farmer let's just say they're making a hundred thousand a year. Um, they don't consider themselves wealthy, but next thing you know, they pass away. The farm gets put in the estate and oh, by the way, now you got a $15 million estate in the, in the family is like, wait a second. Okay. We're going to owe millions of dollars in estate taxes.

So that was a big deal. People were losing family farms, , and that, again, this is way back in the day. So, uh, but what those people did to protect. I know you're going to cringe when I say this, Rob permanent life insurance. So back in the day, uh, permanent life insurance, , when people say I want whole life or whatever, or universal life, I'd be like, why , and one of the few reasons, uh, uh, answers to that other than just like, I just, what I want is what I prefer.

I understand that. But one of the other, you know, techniques. Uh, we have an estate tax problem, so we need permanently life insurance and they had even the, the, uh, the life insurance trust, the islets. I forget what the, I first honest stands for. But anyway, it's a very specific strategy to allow that permit life insurance to pay those estate taxes.

So that's why people had permanent life insurance. And so, uh, so again , those are just a couple of things that, that may come back in. You're revokable thank you. Irrevocable life insurance trusts. Thank you. It's been a while. Those were all the rage, not just, not just five or 10 years ago, you know, a lot of people had those and they'll probably have them again, if, if these things become an issue.

Yeah.

Rob: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Let's pivot just a little bit and maybe back up a little bit when you inherit, you know, this month. Well, obviously what a lot of our listeners have and, uh, maybe their parents have, uh, or whoever they're going to inherit the money from our 401ks and IRAs. And I think that's something that we need to touch on a little bit.

It it's important to know that if someone dies and they had an IRA and they were required to take a required minimum distribution out of that IRA, If they've died and they're past the age of 72, where they're doing that, you're going to also have to take in required minimum distribution, an RMD on the year they died.

They haven't already something to keep in mind. If they've had, if they have multiple IRAs, the IRS treats all of those as one pot, if you will. So they might've paid the RMD out of one pot and you wouldn't have to pay it. So something you're wanting to think about, um, when you get, go down that.

Charlie: Yup. Yup.

That's good stuff. Um, because we've seen this happen before and it, you scramble to kind of go, Hey, has the RMD been paid? , again, it's, you're dealing with people who are dealing with a lot of stuff and, uh, it's awful, , it's just awful, but, but it's just one of the many things you've gotta account for.

Otherwise. There's a, there's a huge penalty on not paying RMDs. Yeah. , it's just one of those things, but, um, And, and you're probably getting to this Rob or, or, uh, at least it's on our script anyway. So I'm going to tell you about the importance. You know, what, if I do inherit a 401k, an IRA, what are the laws now?

What are the rules now? And this starts, uh, the secure act of 2019. So if someone had died, um, 2019, , if, if they died prior to that year, then what I'm going to say is very different. But after the security. The stretch. IRA is basically. So, uh, without, without muddying the waters too much, I used to be able to inherit an IRA and then I could take out an RMD for the rest of my life, just a small portion for the rest of my life, so I could stretch it.

You know, that was a big, big deal. That's pretty much gone. Uh, the rule now is, uh, whether it be a Roth or, or a non. IRA or 401k. You've got 10 years, 10 years to draw it all down. So I'll throw in a plug real quick again for Roth conversions. You know, Ben, you and I are working with one of our clients, a father, son duo.

And we're like, Hey, maybe we should do Roth conversions. So that, yeah, at a lower tax rate, , when, because he's retired, he's, uh, he has a lower tax rate. His son's a pilot. So when his son inherits this money, someday, it's going to go right on top of his income. He's got to take it out within 10 years and he's going to be taxed at the marginal highest margin rate, you know, that he's in at that time.

So, so that's, that's an idea. That's a strategy that, that might work. 10 years is the, is the date is a timeframe. Now there's some exceptions as an, every IRS regulation out there. There's some exceptions I'm going to read those because it's important. And these

Rob: are, these are called eligible, designated beneficiary.

Yeah.

Charlie: So it's a 10 year withdrawal rule unless you're a surviving spouse. A minor child of the account owner, a disabled or chronically ill beneficiary, and a beneficiary who has not more than 10 years younger than the original IRA or 401k participant. So, uh, So basically,

Rob: and that's just a throw in, on the disabled and chronically ill.

It's, it's a pretty high bar to reach, I think. Yeah. You have to be, you know, medically qualified for that. It's not just, if you have, you know, chronic tinnitus or something, you gotta have a, you can't do more than two of six activities or something like that. So

Charlie: it's a high we're counting, you know, we're counting on.

Most of the beneficiaries having 10 years, you know, and again, a spouse is completely different. Um, just to throw out another nugget here, a spouse has the option to roll it, make it their own IRA, or roll it into an inherited IRA. And there's some decisions to make there. Unfortunately, again, we've had this experience as well, and we decided to have the spouse use an inherited IRA because that meant she could take out money, you know, without paying penny.

So that's something to think about, you know, if you're under 59 and a half, you know, so, so something to think about there as far as, uh, the options that people have.

Yep. Excellent. There's a lot of misunderstanding around gifting and estate planning. And so again, if some of our people are like, Hey, my parents, uh, they're getting up at night age and maybe they should just start giving us money. Well, just understand that, , a lot of people think, well, there's that 15,000 a year a gifting limit.

And there's a ton of confusion around that. So, so in, in that limit changes a little bit every year, but I think it's 15,000. All that means is if, if someone were to give you Rob $20,000, that person does not have to pay gift taxes and you don't have to pay gift taxes, they just need to file a gift tax return to account for the gift above the $15,000 a year.

Exclusion. In reality, again, this is today's numbers. You could give away $11.7 million and never pay gift tax during your life. So again, I just want to clarify those rules. It doesn't mean that your, your elderly parents are start gifting you money right now. I'm not saying that at all. In fact, the step-up in basis is something you got to take into consideration.

If someone passes away, you're going to inherit a home or, or a capital asset, a non IRA, a non 401k. Then right now there is a step up in basis, which means you're going to inherit that potentially tax. So that's, that's something to think about.

Rob: And they're in, they're thinking about doing away with that.

Am I correct? And you are correct talking about doing away with that step up in cost basis. Yeah. And that

Charlie: requires a little clarification too, because , the media has a field day with some of these, but the, the real, the real, uh, proposal is that it would be excluded for gains in excess of 1 million.

For a single person in $2.5 million for a couple. Yeah. So that's changes it drastically and oh, by the way, people have been trying to get rid of the step-up in basis for a long time and it never happens. So the likelihood of that happening is very low, , if nothing else, for the reason of, can you imagine people going back 30, 40, 50 years and going, Hey, what's the, what's the cost basis?

I mean, there's no way people are gonna be able to do that. It's just way too common.

Rob: Yeah,

Charlie: Bitcoin. Jesus, what do you got? Yeah, you can leave me some money. See what I think you should gift me some money. Yeah. Well, you did build that house and maybe, maybe I should. I need some gifting.

I can do. I got, I'll put you on my will, but you can have like my old baseball trophies or something. I get you some of my cryptocurrencies as well.

I'm going to inherit something with losses in it. No. Yeah, no, I think this is a great topic though. And, um, it's pretty confusing. So maybe we should, we can do a little recap here of some of the things we've covered, because I know we've kind of jumped around a lot.

Rob: Yeah. Well, here's a little fun fact. Uh, we talked about the penalized, the penalty, the penalty for not taking an RMD.

And you said it was, yeah, it's 50% if you miss. So God forbid something happens. Uh, to someone you love and you inherit that money and they're required to do RMDs on an IRA or 401k then, and you miss it. It's 50% is the penalty that RMD not, not the entire amount, but, but I'll be RMB. They had to, they had to take, you can ask for forgiveness on a fancy IRS form, but, uh, That if you don't ask for forgiveness, that's what you're paying 50%.

Yeah. That's high. That's deep. Yeah, it is.

Charlie: It is. And, and I'll do, I'll take a hack at re you know, kind of rehashing what we've talked about today. Cause I think the most important thing we talked about early on was just chill out, recover for a year. Don't do anything and, and then find someone you can trust to get some good guidance.

And then you've got to, I think you've got to get a plan and I don't care if that you write down on a legal pad. All the things, all the costs, other things that you want to do because that money is going to go away faster than most people think. I believe bar bar napkin is my favorite. Yeah. I use a bar napkin, whatever.

And then, um, neighbor. And if you, yeah, if you think,

okay, if you think that, um, you know, at some point in the near future, you're going to have some inheritance coming your way. Um, think about taxes, estate taxes at the federal level, a state taxes at the state level inheritance taxes, which is just a few states, uh, that it applies to.

So look those up because there's a lot of moving parts at the state level, a lot of moving parts, but most likely if you're. A son or daughter and you're inheriting, then you're probably not going to pay state inheritance tax. Okay. So that's, there's some exclusions. There is what I'm saying. , estate planning, estate tax changes coming our way, 20, 26, no reason to do anything drastic right now.

But a trust bypass trust revokable trust, permanent life insurance may come back into play if you're above these limits and they're still pretty hefty limits of right now, but basically $5.8 million per person. , last thing is we talked about the step up in cost basis. I don't believe that's actually gonna happen.

Take it for whatever it's worth, but if it does, it's only for gains above $2.5 million per married, couple of 1 million. Per into individuals. So, so that's my, uh, attempt at a summary. .

Rob: . It's super important with those 401ks and IRAs or anything or insurance policies that you have beneficiaries named at that. And that they're accurate because what that does is that bypasses probate. And that is key because then you don't have to wait for all that time for the probate courts to do their thing.

And for debtors. You know, the water guy or the lawn guy or the pool guy are all the debtors that come out of the woodwork, uh, during probate to go after that money, they can't do it. It goes directly to that beneficiary. That's why beneficiaries for you, military folks out there, they always make us make sure that that those are correct, because it's so important because it passes directly through you to that, to that person, uh, without having to go through the probate court.

So anyways, yeah.

Charlie: Check your accounts, check your accounts. And if you need any forms filled out for that, just let me know. Ben's the one they can do it@schwab.com. Ben. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah, no forms, please do yourself. Yeah.

Rob: Perfect. Perfect. Uh, the other thing is you got 10 years and unless you're an eligible, designated beneficiary to take out that money.

IRA RA even a Roth IRA. You gotta take that out within 10 years, even though the ROS have already been taxed. So that's good. And remember, there's a difference between IRAs, 401ks, IRAs and 401ks, even Roth 401ks have required minimum distributions. So, uh, that's all I got. What else you got? Yeah.

Charlie: Bear inheriting money.

Uh, contact us, please. And we'll put spin by Ben Dickinson as a beneficiary. Contact me

Rob: planning doc. Uh, all right. That's all we got. We've arrived at our final destination. Couple of leave you with a couple of quotes. They're kind of related here. They're all just, uh, um, dealing with investing in finances. The first one is from PTC. Money is a terrible master, but an excellent servant. Think on that for a bit.

The second one is from a fellow pilot, Amelia Earhart. The most difficult thing is the decision to act. The rest is merely tenacity. That's

Charlie: it?

Rob: That's all we got. We're at the end of a flight 11. Thanks for joining us here at the pilot money guys podcast. If you like, what you heard hit that subscribe. And we want to hear from you, even if you didn't like what your, we want to know that too.

So just shoot us, uh, shoot me an email@robertatleadingedgeplanning.com and has always remember the world makes way for those who know where they're going. So plan accordingly from

Charlie: all, all of us here at leading edge Godspeed. We out see you next time. See ya.

Thank you for listening to the pilot money guys podcast. It has been our pleasure to share some information with you today. Give us a call to discuss absolutely any investment question. You may have click on the subscribe button below to be notified when new episodes become available. Visit leading edge planning.com to learn more.

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Pilot Money Guys

Can I Get Rich With Options Trading?

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You are on a trip and your fellow pilot says they have a new investment strategy that’s getting amazing returns. You are skeptical at first, but after talking about it for the next five hours on the way to LaGuardia you become convinced you must be missing out.

We hear these stories often; we even experience it ourselves! That’s why we are starting a new podcast segment where we discuss some hot topics circulating the pilot lounges, crew vans, and cockpits. We are calling these episodes the Pilot’s Crew Lounge!

In this episode, we are taking on the hot topic of Options Trading. We’ve had a few pilots come to us with questions about Option Trading after hearing about them on trips. We are here to address these questions and give our thoughts!

Are you missing out by not using options? In this podcast we discuss our Top Five Considerations Before Trading Options.

If you have questions, comments, or topics that you would like us to cover, send them to us at info@leadingedgeplanning.com.

Get your peace of mind back this summer with a comprehensive financial plan! Give us a call at 865-240-2292!

Flight #9: Can I Get Rich Options Trading?


[00:00:30] Rob: [00:00:30] A tip of the cap to you.

Thank you for joining us here at the pilot money guys, podcast. Welcome to the
special edition that we're calling the pilot lounge during these flights or episodes. If you will,
we will talk about the questions we've heard around the system in the pilot lounges. And of
course, I'm your host, Rob Eklund.

[00:00:48] We've got the flight crew today. We've got the godfather certified financial
planner. Charlie Mattingly. Sir.

[00:00:55] Charlie: [00:00:55] Yes, sir. Here, president of for

[00:00:58] Rob: [00:00:58] perfect and [00:01:00] advisor, Mr. Cal bell V Ben Dickinson.
Welcome Ben.

[00:01:04] Ben: [00:01:04] I wish you still have that cowboy cowbell. Oh, the ringtone.

[00:01:07] Rob: [00:01:07] Yeah, but that's

[00:01:09] Ben: [00:01:09] all right. That's

[00:01:09] Rob: [00:01:09] all right.
[00:01:10] Without that certain special occasions, although it is the pilot lounge, so we will
have to get to it.

[00:01:16]Ben: [00:01:16] We might add it in post

[00:01:17] Rob: [00:01:17] production. Do you hear that? If you didn't bend was lazy. Okay.
Exactly. All right. Let's jump into some aviation news. Charlie, we're talking a little history.
What do you got?

[00:01:29] Charlie: [00:01:29] Yeah, so we decided to take the aviation news segment. And
and go historical we were talking before we came on you all about Pardo's push. I said, have
you all heard of Pardo's push? I remember talking about this. We used to do aviation or
excuse me, military history, every Friday night at the squatters, it was cool to go on or some
of our some of our warriors that went before us.

[00:01:48] So Pardo's push is very fascinating. It was I'll just tell the story real quick. Captain

Bob Pardot and wingman captain Earl Amman, I think is how you say that. Eighth tactical fighter wing [00:02:00] out of Thai air force base back in Vietnam, March, 1967, trying to tack a steel mill north Vietnam, just north of Hanoi.

[00:02:08]Both fr Phantoms were hit by anti-aircraft fire. Amman's plane took the worst
damage. His fuel tank had been hit and he quickly lost most of the fuel. So Amman
determined that they did not have enough fuel to make it to the tanker, the KC 1 35 tanker
over Laos. So the options are basically little bailout over hostile territory.

[00:02:28] So Pardot said, Hey, I'm going to push you. I'm going to push you to friendly
territory. So Pardot tried pushing the airplane. Now he's pushing his F for another F four
with his F four 80. So he tried using the drag shoot. Couldn't do that. Basically a mom put his tail hook down and then Pardot put the tail hook on his windscreen.

[00:02:49] And he pushed him that way. So basically then Amman shut down both engines and Pardot began pushing him now, in [00:03:00] reality, he's just minimizing the descent so he can push him far enough into friendly territory. It kinda did the trick basically then. So it gets more interesting.

[00:03:08] First of all, the tail hook would not stay in position for longer than about 15 to 20
seconds. So we had to reposition. Do it again, put the tail, look on his windscreen and push
some more just to reduce that descent, which is pretty incredible. And if you know the
physics of the it's, they call it the rhino or the flying tank, because it is a huge fuselage, huge
body of the airplane.

[00:03:29] And then these tanks, excuse me, the wings that go out are very thin they're not
big for the airplane. So the. So the glide ratio is not good, right? So they're doing some work
there. So he's repositioning every 15, 30 seconds to push the tail hook, to get them to
friendly territory. But Pardot was also struggling with fire and one of his own engines and eventually had to shut it down.

[00:03:50] So in the remaining 10 minutes part, I'll use the last engine to slow the descent of both airplanes. So it was pretty incredible. So they're flying [00:04:00] two airplanes are descending slowly on one engine

[00:04:02] Rob: [00:04:02] in between both of them. Most of the time they have four
between them. Yeah, exactly. So

[00:04:07] Charlie: [00:04:07] Pardot is playing running out of fuel after pushing a Mons plane almost 88 miles.

[00:04:11] Again that's really incredible considering where he would have been, had he not had somebody pushing him, he would have who glided a little bit, but not that much.

So the planes reached a friendly airspace at an altitude of 6,000 feet and left them about two
minutes of flying time where they ejected evaded capture and were picked up by rescue
helicopters.

[00:04:31] So incredible story.

[00:04:32]Rob: [00:04:32] It, we talked about a little bit Charlie, but yeah, it was funny. It was part, it was reprimanded for not saying his own aircraft, but then yeah. Military re-examined and said, oh, actually you deserve the silver star for saving both your butts on.

Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:04:47] As a credible. And they both retired at the prestigious rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
Yeah. That's a big rank. I'm a. That's the team in 20 days. Nice.

[00:04:58] Charlie: [00:04:58] Congratulations,

[00:05:00] [00:04:59] Rob: [00:04:59] man. Thank you. Thank you. July 4th is my retirement date. Oh, nice. So you're going to expect presence from Uben for sure. July

[00:05:09] Charlie: [00:05:09] 4th, you'll be retiring as a Lieutenant, as a reserve, as a
Lieutenant Colonel reservist, correct?

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:17] Ben: [00:05:17] Robbie better sill better. She'll be on your game. You're still notthere yet. Can tell him those chickens.

[00:05:24] Rob: [00:05:24] Yeah, good point.

[00:05:27] Ben: [00:05:27] Good point. They're watching. I'm watching you like a Hawk.
Anything. I see.

[00:05:33] Rob: [00:05:33] Good call. All right. Thanks Charlotte. That's good. Any other aviation news you guys want to talk about?

[00:05:42] Ben: [00:05:42] Man. There's not much. It's been boring out there. I want some
more elevation. Come on. I'll just lines.

[00:05:47] Rob: [00:05:47] Give it to us. The Southwest boring is good. Boring is good.
Southwest is buying 30 plus max seven aircraft. So it's 7 37, 700. They're buying more of

[00:06:00] those. I think it would have over 60 next year.

[00:06:02] So that's good news, but a little bit other news, we got the electronic vertical
takeoff and landing system, apparently American and Virgin at least are buying some of these IE Vittol electronic, vertical takeoff and landing aircraft that will be coming out at some point. So that'll be interesting to see how that develops.

[00:06:23] So we talked supersonic last week and now we've got V. Wow. Heck yeah. Apple
is crazy world. Crazy world. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any any

[00:06:32] Charlie: [00:06:32] talk at Southwest about different non Boeing airplanes?

[00:06:37] Rob: [00:06:37] Not that I've heard. Cause

[00:06:39]Charlie: [00:06:39] That was a big, hot topic about a year ago. Yeah. Have you
talked to Gary about that?

[00:06:43] Gary talks about it. Yeah. Because that's, this time last year I was like, holy cow,
you have one type of airplane. We know it. Wasn't this time last year. It was two years ago
when we had the max issues. So yeah, one type of airplane and they're having trouble.

[00:07:00] So that was difficult.

[00:07:02] Rob: [00:07:02] Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:07:04] I think right now we're they're focused on that, that max seven and what that's
going to do, there is rumors who knows what they're true or not of maybe some eat tops
out of Denver. I don't know. Woo. Nice. That'd be interesting.

[00:07:17] Charlie: [00:07:17] Don't forget about the Dreamliner rumors there at Southwest.

[00:07:20] I'm starting through dream liners coming to Southwest fall 20, 22.

[00:07:26] Rob: [00:07:26] Your words not mine.

[00:07:30] Excellent. All right. That's all we have for aviation news. Quick commercial here,
summers here, planes are full. Things are hopping while you enjoy the sun and fun. Or
overtime flying, whatever. Nice. Let us make sure your retirement plan is on track. Give us a
call or shoot us an email to discuss your financial needs.

[00:07:48] We are fiduciary fee only advisors, and you can reach us at 8 6 5 2 4 0 2 2 9 2 or
good old electronic mail. Do you know what that is? [00:08:00] Even electronic mail.

[00:08:03] Charlie: [00:08:03] You have to go to the post

[00:08:04] Rob: [00:08:04] office for that. Anyways. That's info@leadingedgeplanning.com.
And if you want to reach Ben Dickinson directly, call them at (865) 290-7523.

[00:08:18] Again, that's 8 6 5 2 9 0 7 5 2 3. That's enough of

[00:08:22] Charlie: [00:08:22] that, please call.

[00:08:24] Ben: [00:08:24] I need some more. I need some friends.

[00:08:29] Rob: [00:08:29] I know who I'm calling late Friday. Excellent. Let's jump in. We've
got options. I know we talked a little bit about. The pilot lounge would cover options,
covered calls and how to buy an airplane and the tax implications of these a little bit too
much to cover on one podcast. And we're just going to cover the options and covered calls.

[00:08:45] And we're going to get to the airplane and tax implications next week. Charlie,what do you got?

[00:08:50] Charlie: [00:08:50] Absolutely. We've got some top five considerations before
considering wait a second. That's redundant considerations before I said a lot of things here.

[00:09:00] Top five considerations before. Trading options. So yeah.
[00:09:04] Number one, what is your goal? Are you trying to make money? You're trying to
minimize risk. What are you trying to achieve here? Just like our now famous Bitcoin
discussion, it's like we don't just buy an investment to be buying it. We have to know why
we want it. Secondly, is it something, I think this is this has to be true.
[00:09:22] It has to interest you because you need to spend some time. Studying this stuff,
understanding it. Options can be boring and confusing. So you better enjoy it before you
jump in there. There's other ways to achieve the same results. So that's number two,
number three. Are there more profitable alternatives for you?
[00:09:37] In other words, how do you spend your time? Is there an, is there a better way to
spend your time maybe so profitable and maybe monetarily, maybe in quality of life, that's
number three, number four. Do you have the time. Maybe we just talked to that. I don't
know. Maybe that's a, maybe that's a sub-bullet of number three, nonetheless.
[00:09:54] It is. It does take a lot of time, and you've got to take that into consideration. If
you're taking time away from your normal [00:10:00] job, then there's a cost to that.
Number five. What other options do you have for your free time? Other hobbies, you might
enjoy spending time with your family instead of investing in options.
[00:10:10] But we'll talk about today. Investing in options, pros and cons, nuts and bolts. Yes,
that's true.
[00:10:15] Ben: [00:10:15] It's exciting. It's this has been a hot topic on on tip
[00:10:20] Rob: [00:10:20] tic-tac.
[00:10:22] Ben: [00:10:22] Yeah, absolutely. People are making millions from what I've seen some of these videos. According to these anonymous
[00:10:29] Charlie: [00:10:29] videos
[00:10:30] Rob: [00:10:30] and they've only lost 10 millions, so yeah,
[00:10:32] Ben: [00:10:32] exactly.
[00:10:33]They don't put this on important, it's not really that, that math doesn't really need
to work. Yeah.
[00:10:37] Yeah.
[00:10:39] Rob: [00:10:39] That's funny. We've got Obviously, we're going to explain a little
bit about options. We're not going to get too in the weeds. What are we not going to get
into? Oh my gosh. I wouldn't even some of those fancy
[00:10:48] Charlie: [00:10:48] terms.
[00:10:49] I want that straddles long call butterfly spreads are my favorite. Yeah. Not to be
confused with peanut butter spread.
[00:10:58]Rob: [00:10:58] No. That's different
[00:10:58] Charlie: [00:10:58] long [00:11:00] strangle, married put, but. But call spread. No,
that's not the butt call spread. It's the bull call spread. Sorry, I misread my notes there. I was
pretty close, protective collar rights and unwinds.
[00:11:13] So we're not going to, luckily we're not going to talk about any of those that,
especially the buck calls. Those are not fun to talk about.
[00:11:20] Rob: [00:11:20] Optimism.
[00:11:21] Ben: [00:11:21] Call me all the time, Charlie. We should talk about
[00:11:23] Rob: [00:11:23] this. That's a good point.
[00:11:26] Charlie: [00:11:26] We've got to
[00:11:26] Rob: [00:11:26] keep it professional today. Call you at eight six five two nine zero
seven.
[00:11:33] Yeah. All right. Excellent. We're not going to cover that. We're just going to keep
it high level, if you will, or low level or whatever, we're not gonna get into the details. Okay. I
love that. Yeah. So what is an option? It's a derivative means derived from something else
for our purposes today.
[00:11:48] We're just going to talk about stock options, where the options derive their value
from stock. Typically one option is worth. 100 shares. So that's the first part I [00:12:00]
want you to know. We get a little bit of the history here. Options are very old. They're not
brand new. They've been around quite awhile.
[00:12:05] They were even, yeah. During the stock market crash of 1720, and yes, you heard
me right. 1720, not 1929. Whoa. So back then too, people would go into a contract and
that's all an option is a contract between two parties. And they would enter it in the contract
or one person would write the contract, given the buyer the option to buy or sell the stock if
it hit the exercise or strike price on or before the exercise date.
[00:12:35] So it was just a contract between two people. That's it? That was back then.
Obviously if one person didn't have the shares or couldn't buy the shares, when the exercise
price was hit on the exercise date or before. Then that would be a problem. So in 1973,
Chicago board options exchange came about and they were able to solve some of these
problems.
[00:12:54] And now it's called CBO for you traders out there. , CBO came about helped solve
some of those problems. And if someone [00:13:00] wanted to write an option, Now they
needed to show that they had the shares and this exchange would make sure of this so that
someone would just, wasn't saying, oh, I've got the chairs when they didn't and take off to
London or something.
[00:13:11] And they, or they have money in a margin account. So they say, okay, you've got
money in a margin account. If the stock goes, whatever way we can put more in. And that's
what the margin call is, where you'd have to put more money in. I don't ever want to be a
part of those. I don't think there are any fun for.
[00:13:28]Some of the folks I've talked to who have been a part of those, you have to put
more money in and it can get ugly. But in any case, you get to a point where you're writing
options and they're called naked options or naked calls and naked puts. And all this means is
you don't know the shares.
[00:13:44]With the exchange you're on that margin account where you have that money
away so that they can go in there and trade on your behalf. If the stock goes the wrong way.
Opposite of being naked as being covered, which leads us to cover calls. Charlie, what do
you [00:14:00] got on to cover calls?
[00:14:02] Charlie: [00:14:02] They're not naked, so that's the good part.
[00:14:04] That's good. So options are like we say, can get very complicated as you've
already learned. Very difficult to follow along some of these, but the most basic. When I
was studying and learning about options they said is , you could do covered calls with your
grandmother.
[00:14:21] In other words, it's conservative enough to be able to do that. So that's the one
that people maybe are most familiar with and are able to do if they wanted to not a
recommendation if they want to do that in their 401k they can, in most 401k is like in an, in
a in a brokerage window of some sort.
[00:14:39] Of course in a taxable brokerage account at Schwab or E-Trade or fidelity, you can
do any of these things if you want to, or there's other brokerages out there that facilitate
options specifically. They specialize in that. However, again, we're going to focus on what is
a covered call.
[00:14:53] So let's pretend for a minute that, that I own a stock now. Now most people buy
covered calls [00:15:00] or write covered calls, the lingo there, like Robin said, okay. In a
market where they believe it may be flat, the stock market, the stock may go up in price a
little bit.
[00:15:09] It may go down a little bit, but flat that's when they might do a covered call, but
basically it can add income to your investment. So it's essentially like an income producing
strategy, maybe like a dividend, you could compare it to. So just real quick explanation, let's
say I own a stock ABC stock it's at $20 a share.
[00:15:29] So I own that stock and I say, Hey, I'm going to produce a little extra income. And
I'm going to sell a call option. I'm going to sell that contract. Someone's going to pay me to
do that. So I take that premium that I get paid by selling that a call option. I still own the
stock. Let's pretend then that the stock goes down.
[00:15:48]If the stock goes down, I still own the stock and I've got money for that call option
that I wrote to someone or sold to someone. So that's one scenario. Now let's say that I did
the same thing. I sold the call [00:16:00] option. And the stock goes up well, I've got the
premium from the call option that I sold stock goes up to the exercise price or strike price,
someone else exercises that option I am required to now sell my stock.
[00:16:14] And so it's gone. So in other words, let's say I own that stock at $20, ABC stock at
$20, I wrote a call. I received a premium, it went up to $25. It was called away because I had
to sell. So I made 20 excuse me, $5 on the increase in the stock. And I made a little bit of
premium on the selling of the covered call.
[00:16:35] So that is the strategy in a nutshell. And there's a lot of services out there that
offer that as in, I'll be honest with it, they offer it as some magic solutions and magic potion
to increase your 401k and make your life wonderful.
[00:16:50] Rob: [00:16:50] Yeah. And it's interesting why they might do that.
[00:16:54] You start talking about a lot of, Robin hood and, almost all the brokerages
nowadays are doing zero [00:17:00] commission trades for you. And a lot of people get
confused and they think, oh I'm not getting charged anything. Everything's great. And yes,
that is true. However, the brokers are still making a lot of money, especially when it comes
to option trading.
[00:17:13] So on a normal equity trade, a broker might make 17 cents portrayed off of
what's called. Payment for order flow. So that's where they get a kickback from the market
maker, the person actually doing the trade there, they get paid to channel the trade to that
person. And you'll never guess who actually pioneered profit for excuse me, payment for
order flow.
[00:17:39]Any guesses there? Bernie made off burning. Whoa. He planned here or helped
pioneer payment for order flow. So the broker gets a kickback. Yeah. You're not paying
anything, but they are getting paid off that bid ask spread is pretty big compared to a regular
[00:18:00] trade when you're talking about option trading and that market maker is able to
offer those guys as much as 58 cents.
[00:18:05] So 17 cents. Compared to 58 cents, those are just rough numbers there, but
they're making a lot of money off of option trading, which is why you'll see some companies
Robinhood, even TD Ameritrade, other companies wanting and pushing option trading
because they are getting a heck of a lot of money.
[00:18:22] I think one of the quarters, Robinhood and TD Ameritrade, there were upwards of
400 million during the quarter. So it's a wow, it's a lot of money out there and it makes sense
why they're pushing it because they get. Again, they get more money off of it. Off of those
zero commission trades there.
[00:18:39] They're getting quite a bit of money. Now, quick note here, fidelity doesn't accept
payment for order flow. And why do you care about that? You're like I don't care except that
if someone's getting paid to channel your trade to a certain market maker, that means you
may not get the most favorable [00:19:00] terms.
[00:19:00]If they're getting. If they're getting paid to send it to, Maydoff, then they're going
to send it to him to get paid. So anyways enough about that what'd you have,
[00:19:10] Ben: [00:19:10] yeah, that's a shame. I was just going to say. Yeah. Like you said,
with these. Different brokers out there that are now pushing options more.
[00:19:17]Options trading has exploded in popularity in the last 10, 15 years. And it keeps
increasing. I think I saw recently it was like 20 million options are traded a day now, and so
talk about a moneymaker, but then also talk about the popularity increase. Like it is a
serious thing and now.
[00:19:35] Again. I actually see it on social media, people talking about this as if it's, instant
way to, to make a bunch of cash. And so yeah, if you want to know these, the ins and outs,
but gut.
[00:19:47] Rob: [00:19:47] Yeah, absolutely. If you want to get into any of option trading,
just try to search for any podcast on opposite trading.
[00:19:53] You'll get a bazillion different ones out there because people are pushing it like
crazy. [00:20:00] Not to say you can't make money. You just better know the risks. And to
that point, some of the things, some of the things we talk about here at leading edge, if
you're going to do it, and you really, like Charlie said, you want to get into it.
[00:20:12] You're really interested in it. You have the time you have the, it's a hobby for you
or whatever, then you're going to want to put no more than at least what we advocate here
is no more than 5% of your portfolio in that you don't want to put too much because you
might lose it for one. If you're going to do it, make sure you define your risk and know your
downside.
[00:20:34] It can take years to get comfortable with it. That's something you're going to have
to make sure you have the time to get. Get good at it. It's not something you're just going to
pick up one day and say, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to be a great option straighter and make
a ton of money tomorrow.
[00:20:46] The one thing I will read here, which is pretty interesting is one of the quotes, the,
one of the quotes from TD Ameritrade that they make you read before you can even start
trading options.
[00:20:55] As opposites are not suitable for all investors. As the special risks inherent to
option [00:21:00] trading may expose investors to potentially rapid and substantial losses.
And it goes on to say a whole bunch of other things. Option trading privilege privileges in
your account are subject to TJ, TD Ameritrade review and approval.
[00:21:13] Not all accounts owners will qualify. So lots of different things out there. Charlie.
What else? What else do you got on options? Yeah.
[00:21:22] Charlie: [00:21:22] Yeah. It's just it's just, I don't know the way you think about
some of these things, a lot of times as investors, we're sold stuff, we're sold strategies.
[00:21:29] We're sold annuity, sometimes nothing wrong with annuities. If they fit your
situation, nothing wrong with options. If they fit your situations, don't get sold something
though. In other words, let's say someone's trying to sell me on call options. Call options are
great, cover calls, fine, income producing the stock gets called away, fine, whatever it can be
beneficial, but as a, as an accumulator right now in my life or any, let's say one of our pilots
still flying, do I really need to [00:22:00] produce some income?
[00:22:01] And my 401k, people are like of course I do. Maybe not because I really want to
keep those investments and I want them to grow. For the long-term, so what is it that I
really need because sometimes executing this fancy complex call strategy sounds really cool,
but is it really what I want?
[00:22:19] And I probably could do better if I, go, just go long on equities, period. And so
that's, I'm not trying to produce income until I'm in retirement. I really want capital
appreciation. So that's one of the things and the other thing is that, we talk about the risk of
options and there are some risks, but most options strategies they're designed to reduce
your risk, buying a put option, it's designed to provide a floor to a stock that you might own.
[00:22:47]To minimize losses, or like I said, covered calls, designed to produce a little bit of
extra income. So most of the time, these things, are risky mitigation strategies that large
insurance companies are using. Large [00:23:00] institutions are using hedge fund managers
are using an individual investor.
[00:23:04] I'm not so sure that we often understand exactly what options are for when we're
investing in them. In other words, most of our most investors will say, I just want to make
more money. Options probably aren't your best bet. Then you don't just go along the stock,
or as many oxygen you can.
[00:23:19] So anyway it's interesting how sometimes things are sold to us when we don't
really know exactly the purpose of the particular investment, we're just attracted to it
because of the complexity.
[00:23:29] Rob: [00:23:29] Yeah, that's a good point and note on that. If you're buying call
options or you're a call option holder, and you're not entitled to the quarterly dividends,
every other person is, that, that has, that just regularly buys that stock regardless of when
they purchase, when you purchase that option.
[00:23:47] So something to keep in mind, sometimes you don't capture those dividends,
which dividends aren't the end all be all, but they are, they do help in certain cases. So
something to keep in mind. Yeah.
[00:23:57] Ben: [00:23:57] Yeah. So I heard something that, . [00:24:00] And again, this is
the pilot lounge topic, cause this is something that we hear.
[00:24:04]That people are talking about and whether it be in the cockpit or in the pilot
lounge, but there's a lot of different people out there actually trying to sell what they call
like the, basically the signals of, Hey here's what options I'm looking at. Here's what options
you should go and buy.
[00:24:20] And then, you pay a subscription fee. They give you a, Hey here's three options a
week that you go and buy and here's the returns I'm making. It's crazy. That's just something
to look out for because I've seen that a lot going around. I've heard a few of our pilots tell us
this and that people are doing it and people are asked telling them about it.
[00:24:38]I would definitely do a lot of more research before you go ahead and subscribed
to something like that, because a lot of scams happen that way. And it seems to be
increasing in popularity. I don't know if you all have seen any of that advertised or anything,
but it's definitely something that you should be .
[00:24:53] Cautious of, if you see
[00:24:55] Rob: [00:24:55] it. Yeah. It's been floating around for sure. One of the pilots I flew
with [00:25:00] not too long ago, he's doing it and, I think he's trying to make sure he's doing
it the right way and protecting himself. But just a side note here, if you're riding or selling a
naked option, You get paid for writing that contract, but your losses can be all the way, you
could lose it all.
[00:25:15] So knowing your risk again, foot stomp in that know your risk, know your
downside as you're getting into this. And if you don't know that, then you probably shouldn't
be doing it.
[00:25:25] Charlie: [00:25:25] Yeah, exactly. And like we talked about before, there's a
couple other alternatives too. Like individual options contracts. So there's a lot of mutual
funds out there that, that take these strategies and wrap them into a mutual fund.
[00:25:39] In fact, there's an ETF. So we'll talk about it in a minute too. But so what I did is I
just Googled, the top 10 mutual funds that, that execute option strategies. So I've got the
top 10 . I put them in our software. And Rob, I was showing you this before we got on the
call here.
[00:25:55] And I was like, we'll look at the risk return profile of these investments in
[00:26:00] the expenses. We're all averaging. They probably average about 1.5. In fact, I
might be able to take a look right now, but it is significant, so here's an example for you on a
portfolio. You typically average a 0.16%.
[00:26:15]It's what our portfolios, average expense ratio. So for every a hundred thousand
dollars, that's $161. So the expense ratio of these option based mutual funds is an average
of almost 1.5%, which is $1,400 annually versus 161. So you've got huge expenses and oh, by
the way, let's take a look, is it worth it to have those expenses?

[00:26:37]No, it's not worth it because up until last fall, The intermediate term treasury was outperforming these top 10 together. So I took the top 10 option based mutual funds. I
equally split them, about 8.3%. And their performance was was just about on par with a
government [00:27:00] treasury. Wow. And so not only are you taking more risks, you're
paying more expenses, but I could have been the same thing with immediate term.

[00:27:06] Yeah. So I'll be honest with you. I don't get it. I don't get, because one, an investor doesn't usually a mutual fund like this for a timing strategy. If I'm going to buy a mutual fund like this, I'm going to let those managers execute their strategy. That's the whole point. And that's why you pay more expenses.
[00:27:23] But they've not really done what they said they were going to do. So anyway, I'm just very fascinated at why and what place. Cause that's what we think about Rob and Ben is like as investment advisors. Where, what role does this play in my portfolio? Does it provide diversification? Does it add value? When times are tough, does it help me?

[00:27:44]Let me tell you about in 2020, the options based mutual fund portfolio that I
created returned 3.6, 2%. Intermediate term government treasury 7.5%. Okay. If you'd just
done a 70, 30 portfolio, you probably [00:28:00] would've gotten mid-teens. So what role, a lot of people say you gotta have alternatives in your portfolio.

[00:28:05] Wow. I don't get it. So I'm not sure, you know what I'm missing here. But I don't think I want them in my portfolio.
[00:28:12] Ben: [00:28:12] It's like people it, there's something about the complexity of it
and, Hey, we're doing all these options training. It may sound great. Hey, we're doing all this look, look at all this complex stuff we're doing it sounds maybe good on the surface, but really, yeah, like you look at the numbers, you look at the fees involved, you look at the risk profile, you look at what are their returns been, and you start to realize that just because things are really complex and these portfolio managers are really active. Doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for you.

[00:28:40] Charlie: [00:28:40] Yeah. And that's a behavioral thing as investors. We just can't believe sometimes that it can really be that simple to own a diversified portfolio.

[00:28:49]Government treasuries provide the best diversification and in difficult times, at
least they've shown to do that in, in, in history anyway. So we, it's just our natural tendency
to look for something [00:29:00] really complex. Somebody has got to have the secret potion out there and listen to these names, equity call a premium, a tactical core fund, enhanced equity, income, strategic program, risk emergent.

[00:29:11]It's that sounds pretty good but it looks when you look, dig a little deeper, it
doesn't look so, so good. So anyway, so sometimes simple wins out in these types of
situations.

[00:29:20] Ben: [00:29:20] It's boring just to own a fund with a bunch of companies in there, but then you look deeper and you realize, these companies that like it and are just a regular portfolio, that's not doing these complex options.

[00:29:31]These are companies and businesses that are doing complex things behind the scenes, trying to make more money for their company and grow. So really it's not boring. It just, it may sound more boring than that. I want that tactical, a whatever you called it. That sounds pretty cool, but really it's just a S a smoke and mirrors from what it seems like,
obviously on the, in those tendencies.

[00:29:52]But is there a place for options?
[00:29:56] Rob: [00:29:56] Yeah. Sure. Sure. I think if you're going to be [00:30:00] trading stocks, individual stocks, and you're scratching that itch again with a very small portion of your portfolio and you're trading stocks, I can see where you're going to head some of those positions. Yeah. To protect yourself from the downside.

[00:30:12] And that's where I see if you're going to be doing that. Then, that's one thing. Or again, if you're really adamant and you're really You really want to get into this, riding those covered calls and doing some of those things with a small portion of your portfolio. I think it could be interesting too.

[00:30:26] And it's got an appeal to it, to some

[00:30:27] Charlie: [00:30:27] people. Yeah., and the way we make decisions is interesting. If

I just had my speculative money out, and I'm ready to go do some different things and just
learn about investing. I'd have no problem doing covered calls.

[00:30:39] I have no problem. With put options buying put options, they create that floor for you, and they're better than doing like a limit order. limit order on a single stock or a put option is better than that because it gives you more flexibility. We won't go into too many details, but think about it this way.

[00:30:53]If the choices of my hobbies and my off time are like to do put call, put options
and cover calls

[00:31:00] versus say, buying a horse. I think you're way way better, better off doing covered calls. Okay. Let me just put that out there because you don't have to feed
them. You don't have to call the vet. You just have to spend some time and if you enjoy it,
great do it. But like you said, Rob, just understand that it's speculative unless you've unless you're doing something little more conservative, again, cover calls, fairly conservative, just to understand which kind of options strategy you're doing.

[00:31:25] Rob: [00:31:25] Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah.

[00:31:28]Charlie: [00:31:28] Hey, do we have time to talk about the the last ETF?
[00:31:32] Rob: [00:31:32] I, yeah, absolutely. I think so.

[00:31:34] Charlie: [00:31:34] I think so. Like you said, Ben, the options are used by our
clients, if they buy and, in fact to fixed indexed annuities and that's, that sounds like a dirty word to some of us, but there are some times when fixed index annuities are appropriate, just depends.

[00:31:50]But those types of annuities use option strategies. They use out of the money calls in the money calls and they create. This floor for [00:32:00] investors and they create a cap.

Now all of that is very confusing. We won't go into detail on how those constructed, but
sometimes they're appropriate.

[00:32:07] Sometimes they can serve a purpose and that's why insurance companies use them. So that's one example. There's another example, and this is a relatively new thing in there called buffer ETFs. You can look these up online. They're called innovator ETFs and they came out a few years ago. And basically what they do is they're that fender fixed indexed annuity that I just described where there's a floor created, and then there's a ceiling created.

[00:32:30]. So a couple of years ago, these buffer ETFs came out and they've since multiplied like crazy, they have all kinds of them right now.

[00:32:37]. They don't talk about how exactly how they construct them. But nonetheless, I
could buy one of these buffer ETFs it's in an ETF wrapper, which makes it much more
transparent.

[00:32:46] I know what to expect. I say because there still are some things to think about. I know the expenses they're less than an insurance product. The fact they're about 0.8% is the expense ratio, which is expensive for an ETF. There's no doubt about it, but there's a lot of moving parts going on here.

[00:33:00] [00:33:00] So I will tell you that last year during the COVID downturn this was an alternative to getting out of the market completely. It's not a panacea. If I, when I describe it to you right now, it will sound like a panacea. Okay. So in other words, I can buy an ETF. That's called a buffer ETF S and P 500 is what I'm tracking.

[00:33:19] It protects me for the first 9%. Decline. In other words, the stock, the market goes down S and P goes down 8%. I don't go down at all. So that sounds pretty good. Now, if I go to, if it goes down 20, then I'm going to go down 10 ish. The difference. Okay. So there is not complete protection, but they have other ones that can protect you almost 30% on the downside.

[00:33:39] That sounds great. But the upside is also kept much, much lower. Ah, so see how
these get complicated really quickly. There's the rub. So now is it an alternative? And again, going back to, how does this fit in my port polio last year, we thought, Hey, should we use these or not? And in fact, we tried [00:34:00] to talk to, if a client was having difficulty maintaining their plan in the market, they wanted to go to all cash, which we thought was a bad move.

[00:34:09] Then buffer ETS, we thought were a good solution. Because it provided
somewhat of a predictable outcome. In other words, at the end of this one-year period,
they're all based off of one year, because that's when the options expire, you know what
you're going to be limited to on the downside and the upside.

[00:34:27] So that provided some people, some certainty in a time where uncertainty was rampant. I talked to one person last year and they said, Hey, I think we're headed for the great depression. And I couldn't disagree with him. I had nothing to come back to cause
anything could have happened. That sounds silly.

[00:34:40] Maybe looking back now, but at the time it was pretty scary, a lot of uncertainty.

Now they're not a stock replacement. And maybe they're not a bond replacement, maybe
they're a hybrid, so you gotta think about how you're using them in your portfolio.

[00:34:52] There's pros and cons to everything. I'll go over the couple of negatives real quick.

They're very expensive. Like I said, 0.8% is a very high expense ratio for [00:35:00] ETFs, but you can understand why, because they have options, et cetera, going on inside these ETFs, they're likely to underperform during strong bull markets.

[00:35:09] Now last year, there was such a quick recovery hindsight being what it is.
Probably would have been better off not going into buffer ETFs. However, remember what I
said, it was a stretch, it was an option to go in into cash. We stayed in the market. We've got
some return, not as much as the S and P gives it recovered quickly and strongly stronger
than we ever thought it would.

[00:35:29]So there, there are these ETFs that have these options strategies, quite frankly,
they're going to underperform in the longterm. That's just what you're gonna have to, put up with they're complicated. They have a lot of moving parts. So again, anytime you use an
options, strategies, you need to know what you're doing and know what to expect, because there's nothing worse as an investor investing in something thinking I'm going to have this
result in the exact opposite happens.
[00:35:53] So I think that's one of the big things to consider.

[00:35:57] Rob: [00:35:57] Yeah, absolutely. That is a great [00:36:00] example. Charlie and to piggyback on that, that's one of the reasons why we are so adamant that we're getting your risk analysis, right? Because we want to know when COVID hits, when you know, the 2008 financial crisis hits, we want to know what your risk tolerance is.

[00:36:16] Sometimes you can't know until it happens. And I get that. But if you can, and if
you can simulate it and share flat or whatever you're going to do to see when COVID hits, I'm okay with it going down, 30 to 40%, and I'll, I'm going to be just fine because I'm a long-term investor or I've got my risk.

[00:36:32] I know I've got bonds. , and I'll be able to get through this rebalancing and those
kinds of things. So I don't need to get into to these options that we're talking about right
now, even the ETFs. If you've got your risk analysis nailed, you don't need to get into that.

[00:36:46] If you don't or if you start getting cold feet, that's where an advisor can really
help you out and get you through those hard times. All right. Anything else?
[00:36:58] Charlie: [00:36:58] I think that's about it. Like I said, if you're going to [00:37:00] do horses, the options are better.
[00:37:06] That's it? In a nutshell, I just got my little girl four chickens, because like I said, last time our chickens got eaten by someone besides me or something besides me. I don't like it.

We've got some new chickens. We're going to do some goats. But we're not going to do
horses. As long as I can stiff arm that as long as I have a say in my own family, Which may
not [00:37:26] Rob: [00:37:26] be very long.
[00:37:28] Yeah. Good luck. We're all counting on you. I'll

[00:37:32] Charlie: [00:37:32] talk a bit. Let's talk a big talk. Yeah, my daughter, this
weekend, we got chickens. Soon as we got chicken. So daddy, did you say I could get horses when I'm 12? No. 15. I said 15 and before it was 20 she's already talked me down. She's already anchored me down five years.

[00:37:47] It was 20 before
[00:37:50] Rob: [00:37:50] hires you hire her now. That's awesome. Good stuff. We've
arrived at our final destination. This I [00:38:00] believe is flight nine, episode nine. Thanks for joining this year. Pilot money guys podcast. If you have any questions. You would like us to answer anything on the show.
[00:38:09] Shoot me or Charlie and email Robert leading edge planning.com.
charlie@leadingedgeplanning.com or been@leadingedgeplanning.com. Any of us throw us an email. We'll try to cover it. Leave you with a couple of Charlie Munger quotes. The big
money is not in buying or selling, but in the waiting a second one, here is a lot of people with high IQs, terrible investors, because they've got terrible temperaments.

[00:38:35] That's it, if you like, what you heard, please hit that subscribe button so we can reach more people. And remember, as Emerson said, the world makes way for those who know where they're going. So plan accordingly from all of us here at leading edge. Thanks for
stopping [00:38:52] Charlie: [00:38:52] we're out.

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Categories
Education Rob

The Fiduciary.

The Fiduciary.

The first time I heard the term “fiduciary,” I said to myself, “fidu…what? Sounds fancy.” Then I fell asleep. Admittedly, this topic appears boring and could put my 16-year-old boy all hopped up on Mountain Dew to sleep. But, here is a wake-up call – knowing who is and who is not a fiduciary is the first step in finding someone actually to help you with your money.
So, what is a fiduciary?
A fiduciary is someone who acts on behalf of another person and has a fundamental obligation to put their clients’ interests ahead of their own, with a duty of undivided loyalty and utmost good faith. Fiduciaries are bound both legally and ethically to act in the client’s best interests.
SEC Chairman Jay Clayton defined the fiduciary responsibility this way, “This duty – comprised of both a duty of care and a duty of loyalty – is principles based and applies to the entire relationship between the investment adviser and the client.”
When someone is a fiduciary, it applies to the “entire relationship,” not parts of it. It is the highest standard in the financial world. You may be saying, “Okay. Great! Aren’t all financial advisors fiduciaries?”
I would say, “NO!”
Unfortunately, the term financial advisor is very nebulous and can apply to brokers (registered representatives), IARs (Investment Advisor Representatives), or hybrid advisors who are dual-registered and can act as both a broker and IAR. The bottom line is only IARs who are only IARs (not dual-registered) are fiduciaries always. They must do what is in your best interest, even if it hurts them. They are like financial knights, putting your kingdom before their own monetary gain.
You, “Great Rob, what about Bernie Madoff? Wasn’t he a fiduciary?”

You are absolutely correct!

Yes, Madoff was a fiduciary advisor  (before that, he was a highly successful broker). I am definitely not saying that just because someone is a fiduciary, they will do what is best for you and your money. However, I am saying, by law, they are supposed to do precisely that (Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in federal prison). There are criminals in the world, and you need to take steps to make sure they are not defrauding you. Fortunately, many changes have taken place since Madoff and, perhaps one of the most important was the shift to a custodian system. A custodian system is where your advisor does not hold your money. Instead, a custodian like Charles Schwab retains it, and you can independently check your accounts to make sure it is where you think it is…not off in a Ponzi scheme. So, make sure your fiduciary IAR has a third-party custodian, and they don’t hold your money themselves.
You, “How did you gather this knowledge?”
I have been interested in investing ever since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. However, I acquired this fiduciary knowledge several years ago when I was a newly minted first officer before becoming an IAR and before Reg BI (discussed below). At that time, I began a journey to find a trustworthy financial advisor for myself. As a military officer, money had not been a primary concern, and, to be honest, I didn’t have enough of it to matter. But as I began my major airline career (2013), I realized I would soon have enough money that I had better start thinking about how to manage it.         I knew I needed help. My focus was on learning how to be a First Officer while still juggling my Air Force Reserve career.
Many questions ran through my head. The biggest and most important was, “How can I protect my money?” The money I had worked so hard to accumulate. What I found surprised me.
Many investment advisors wanting my business were brokers. Some of these brokers were very intelligent and could sell with the best. One problem, they only had a “suitable” duty of care to me and my money.
What does “suitable” mean? It means they only had to put my money into investments they deemed…wait for it…adequate. They did not need to give me advice that was best for me. To be clear, I am sure there are many respectable, ethical brokers out there; I am not saying there aren’t. But, with a suitable standard, they had no legal obligation to do right by me and my money.
For example, say I had two financial advisors: an IAR (fiduciary) and a broker
(suitable in 2013). Let us say they both had the option to put me in one of two identical funds, except one fund has higher fees. The IAR, legally, could not put me in the higher fee fund. The broker could legally put my money into the higher fee fund and likely would if they were getting paid to do so, as long as they deemed it adequate. You, “Okay, but that was then, right? What about now and Reg                 BI?”Regulation Best Interest (Reg BI – effective January 1st, 2020), has attempted to change the relationship and move the ethical bar higher for brokers. Instead of only having a suitable duty, they are now supposed to have a “best interest” duty. The regulation takes several steps to raise the bar (like having to disclose conflicts of interest); however, it does not change the dynamics of how a broker operates. A broker is still paid by a 3rd party to put their client’s money in certain funds. This relationship has not changed. Now, however, the SEC expects them to use the client’s best interest.
You, “How can they do what’s in my best interest if they are getting paid by someone other than me to put my money into particular funds?”
Great question; you are not alone asking this. Some say Reg BI hardly moves the bar; some say it moves it a lot. Here is my take…
The regulation does not and cannot change the dynamics of how a broker operates via a 3-party exchange. The broker will still have the broker, the client, and the entity paying the broker to put the client into their particular funds (3 parties). This higher standard is potentially good, but brokers still get paid by people other than the client. IARs, on the other hand, are fee-only, meaning the client is the only one who pays them (i.e., IARs are not paid by mutual funds or companies to get you to invest with them).
Per the Investment Advisors Act of 1940, IARs have always had a higher fiduciary standard and deal with this 2-party exchange. There is the client and the IAR, that’s it (2 parties). There is no incentive for an IAR to put your money into funds that may not be in your greatest interest.
You, “So how are IARs paid?”
Typically, IARs are paid by you quarterly. They get paid a percentage of how much money they manage for you. In the business, this is called AUM (Assets Under Management). It means, if you do well, they do well (Leading Edge charges pilots 0.85 % up to the first $1 million). So out of every $1,000 you have invested, you will pay us $8.50 per year (paid quarterly – $2.13) or less than 2 cups of Captain lattes per year (This is different from a broker who is paid to sell you a product and gets paid regardless if your money does well or not).
You, “Why would I pay someone a percentage of AUM?”
Well, think about having a wingman, co-pilot, or workout buddy. You are more likely
to get where you want to go if you have someone helping you and encouraging you to get there. IARs help you stay the course when times get tough (Extremely wealthy people pay hedge funds similarly, but a much higher percentage of AUM). You do it because of the value you get from it.
Vanguard has studied certain financial advisors’ value and determined that advisors can add 3% to the client’s portfolios. This sounds like a pretty good investment to me!
You, “Okay, so I pay you $8.50 per $1,000, but you can add value of $30 per $1,000?” Although this is not guaranteed, this is precisely the idea. Generally speaking, if an advisor starts guaranteeing returns, tell them you’ll call them back, but our job is to add value.
You, “How or why is this?”
Morgan Housel (the author of The Psychology of Money) has a great point – Napoleon once said, “a genius is the man who can do the average thing when everyone else around him is losing his mind.” A good advisor is someone who can help you be average when everyone else is losing their mind. If you can do this, you can make a lot of money. Good advisors help you do just that.
Think of being an airline pilot; much of our training deals with emergency training. What is the goal? To get us to do the average thing when most people are losing their minds. IARs can help instruct you through these market emergencies.
Furthermore, IARs give you comprehensive financial planning. Comprehensive financial planning may include Estate Planning, Tax Planning Strategies, Risk Management, College Savings, Employee Benefits Optimization, Insurance Planning, Career Planning, and Financial Independence Planning. These services can help you sleep better at night knowing you have taken care of your future self and loved ones, which in my book is priceless.
You, “So I get access to all of these types of planning with my 0.85% payments?”
Yes, most IARs offer many of these services, included with your quarterly fee. If you are familiar with a retainer, this is similar. You pay quarterly fees and have access to all kinds of advice/planning all year long. At Leading Edge, all of these services, and more, are offered and are included with your quarterly 0.85% payment.
In airline terms, when passengers pay for a ticket, that ticket includes deviations around thunderstorms, ATC delays, de-icing costs, etc. When you pay an advisor, you get almost all of the fixings with investment advice.
You, “Sounds great, but what does fee-only mean?”
Fee-only means you are paying both commission (and other custodial fees) and advisor fees. Simply put, when any trade is made establishing an investment position, there are commissions paid to brokers. Brokers make the trades but are simply the mechanism for buying and selling. In this capacity, they do not act as advisors and are not part of the decision making process. They do not get paid by the IAR and do not pay the IAR. These trades are separate from a broker selling you a product for a fee.

Now brokers giving advice, not acting as fiduciaries, may come up with all kinds of reasons why they are better for you than an IAR. It should only remind you of a quote by Upton Sinclair, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
I believe this is what Reg BI attempts to do. It tries to get brokers to act in the client’s best interest, but their salary often depends on him not doing so. I fear that many brokers will continue finding ways to put clients in funds that pay the brokers. Even in the regulation itself, the term “best interest” is ill-defined and very open to interpretation. Time will tell how the SEC enforces Reg BI, but it will not change the dynamics of a 3-party (broker) relationship vs. a 2-party (IAR) relationship.
A fiduciary IAR is the highest standard and likely will be for the foreseeable future.
Reg BI does take steps to ensure brokers disclose conflicting relationships, which is a good thing. However, the fact they have to admit the relationship is irrelevant, in my opinion.
It makes me think of getting hit with a rock by a bully. His parents have come along and told him he has to tell me he is hitting me with a rock before he does it…but he can still hit me with the rock.
Understand, the bully can be quite crafty when explaining why hitting me with the rock is best for me, but I still get hit with a stone at the end of the day. Why would I sign up for that? I wouldn’t, and I didn’t.
Now, if you have fallen prey to some of these brokers, take comfort in knowing you aren’t alone. Many hardworking people have trusted these people to do what was in their greatest interest, not knowing these brokers had no such obligation. Several studies have shown that most investors don’t understand their financial advisor’s duty (or lack thereof). Many people believed their brokers were always legally bound to do what was best for them. Unfortunately, this was and is not the case. Again, only IARs (Investment Adviser Representatives), who do not wear broker hats ever, have a fiduciary duty to you at all times.

Back to my hunt for an advisor (pre-Reg BI)… Armed with this newfound fiduciary/suitable knowledge, I arranged a meeting with an advisor through my airline company’s 401k plan.
During the conversation, I asked, “Do you have a fiduciary duty to me?”
What should have been a simple yes or no, was instead a bunch of hemming and hawing, but no real answer. Not to be deterred, I asked again. This time I received another vague response, so I asked again. Finally, this advisor told me he only had a suitable responsibility (today, he would have told me he had a best interest responsibility).
Case closed. He may have been a great advisor, but he had no legal obligation to do what was right for me. If he put me in a poor investment and lost all of my money, I had very little to no recourse.         Today, instead of deeming that same investment “suitable,” there will likely be brokers who find ways to make those same investments “best interest.”
What I wanted was someone who had a legal obligation to me and my money. I wanted my financial advisor to do what was in my highest interest. Furthermore, I wanted someone who had no incentive to put me in a particular fund. For me, the fiduciary is the answer.
You may be saying, “Great Rob, but how do I find out if someone has a fiduciary responsibility to me?”
This one is easy, ask.
Ask the following question, “If I hire you as my advisor, do you always have a fiduciary duty to me?”If the answer isn’t a fairly quick, “Yes.” I advise looking elsewhere.
If it is, follow it up with, “To be clear, you never put on a broker hat and always have a fiduciary responsibility to me?”
The answer should again be, “Yes.”
Beyond asking, you should also be able to find out by looking at the disclosures on their website or looking at their Form ADV Part 2A/Firm Brochure or the new Client Relationship Statement (CRS) mandated by Reg BI.
When I became an advisor, I knew I wanted to do it the right way and only become an IAR (fiduciary). Thankfully, Leading Edge Financial Planning (LEFP) shares this belief. Our Form ADV Part 2A says this:

Item 10: Other Financial Industry Activities and Affiliations
No LEFP employee is registered, or has an application pending to register as a broker-dealer or a registered representative of a broker-dealer.
LEFP only receives compensation directly from our clients. We do not receive compensation from any outside source nor do we pay referral fees to outside sources for client referrals.

If you have gotten this far and not fallen asleep, I thank you. As you now know, I am a fiduciary and vow to protect my clients’ hard-earned money with the highest devotion to their goals. If you want to chat further about this or any other subject, please give me a buzz at (707) 712-9387 or shoot me an email at robert@leadgingedgeplanning.com. Until next time, I hope you have only tailwinds and blue skies!

Robert Eklund
Leading Edge Financial Planner

Robert Eklund

Financial Planner

Rob is a Southwest Pilot and soon to be retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel. He grew up working on his family’s ranch in Colorado and went to high school in Alaska.  In 2000, he graduated from the United States Air Force Academy, earning a Bachelor of Science degree in Legal Studies.  Rob has served over twenty years in the Air Force, ten years on active duty, and over ten in the Reserves. During his military career he flew the C-130 while stationed in Germany and the KC-10 in California. Rob has accumulated over 700 hours of combat flying hours and participated in multiple Operations.  He was hired by Southwest Airlines in 2013 and became a staff officer at USNORTHCOM’s Domestic Operations Division in 2016. While holding this position as an Air Planner, Rob helped areas recover from Hurricane disasters; specifically, he was called to active duty to aid in recovery efforts following Hurricane Maria.

While studying at the Academy, Rob discovered his enthusiasm for the study of personal finance and investing.  As his military service comes to a close, he is excited to combine his passion for helping and protecting others with his enthusiasm for personal finance.  This culminated in 2020 with Rob passing the Series 65 Uniform Investment Advisor Law Exam and joining the Leading Edge team as a fiduciary advisor.  A fiduciary’s role comes naturally to him as he enjoys helping people whether that benefits him or not.  Rob knows the tremendous trust clients place in their financial advisors, and it is his goal to grow that trust through the highest level of transparency and integrity.  In his personal life, Rob married up to the love of his life and has been married for 18 years. He is overwhelmingly proud of his son, whom he recently donated a kidney.
]Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this video will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 03/18/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.

Categories
Charlie Education

“The Envious Investor”

 

 

“My neighbor invested all of his portfolio in TESLA and now I’m envious!  It feels like I’ve FOREVER missed out.  And I might have less money in retirement because I missed the hot stock, ETF, Mutual Fund, etc.? 

 

“As an investor, you get something out of all the deadly sins—except for envy. Being envious of someone else is pretty stupid. Wishing them badly or wishing you did as well as they did—all it does is ruin your day. Doesn’t hurt them at all, and there’s zero upside to it.”

 

“If you’re going to pick a sin, go with something like lust or gluttony. That way at least you’ll have something to remember the weekend for.”

 

Warren Buffett

We understand these concerns and feelings because we’re investing for retirement too!  Furthermore, as investment advisors we hear these concerns almost every year.  If you’re a diversified investor, there will always be an asset class, a high-flying stock or mutual fund that has higher returns than your diversified portfolio.   

Does this mean we’ll have less money for retirement than our neighbor who’s ONLY investment last year was TESLA?  Historical evidence says you’ll likely do just as good or better over the long-term.  The “over the long term” part of the sentence presents the challenges.  In other words, it’s really hard to be a long-term investor when it feels like the world is falling apart around you AND your drinkin buddies are killing it with their daily newsletter stock picks!   

We all feel the pressure (envy) of missing out on great investmentthat we should have known were going to do better than all the others.  The good news is that diversification still works.  It’s never really “cool” nor does it ever feel great.  However, we believe, and the evidence supports the fact that your chances of success are better in the long run.  Check out the numbers from the chart below from BlackRock.   

 

Take a look at our short video where Charlie discusses what it was like in 2020 as investor.  How challenging it can be to stay the course and not chase recent returns.  Furthermore, the difficulties of feeling like you’ve forever missed out if your returns weren’t as high as your neighbor who invested in TESLA, Bitcoin, etc.   

Thank you! 

Charlie & the Team at Leading Edge Financial Planning 

 

Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this video will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 03/12/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.

Categories
Retirement Rob

What Does Fiduciary Mean and Why is it Important?

Leading Edge Financial Planning is growing!  Thanks to you for spreading the word about Leading Edge, we’re adding new advisors to increase our capacity and continue to improve the quality of our service for current and future clients.   

We’ve been tremendously fortunate to have added three new advisors over the last few months.  Many of you already know Ben Dickinson as he’s been with us for almost two years now.  However, he’s moving into more of an advisory role as he’s increased his knowledge base, experience and met the SEC’s requirements to become an Investment Advisor Representative (IAR).   

We’ve also added Mark Covell as an IAR.  Mark is a soon-to-be-retired Marine fighter pilot as well aan American Airlines pilot And yeshe’s brilliant and talented in addition to being a Marine warrior for our country!   

For many of you, this article may be your first introduction to Rob Eklund.  He’s one of our latest additions to the team.  We’re very excited to add Rob to our team of advisors because of his passion and excitement for helping people with their personal finances.  Mguess is his enthusiasm will come through in this article. He tells his story of searching for a trusted, fiduciary financial advisor to help him and his family with their personal financebefore becoming an IAR himself.  Click here tlearn more about Rob’s background and experience, and please check out his article below... 

 

What Does Fiduciary Mean and Why is it Important

The first time I heard the term fiduciary, I said to myself, fidu…what? Sounds fancy. Then I fell asleep. Admittedly, this topic appears boring and could put my 16-year-old boy all hopped up on Mountain Dew to sleep! But here is a wake-up callknowing who is and who is not a fiduciary is the first step in finding someone to help you with your retirement and investment planning.   

I have been interested in investing ever since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. However, I acquired this fiduciary knowledge several years ago when I was a newly minted first officer for a major airline, before becoming an investment advisor myself.  At that time, I began a journey to find a trustworthy financial advisor for myself and my family. As a military officer, money had not been a primary concern, and to be honest, I didn’t have enough of it to matter. But as I began my major airline career in 2013, I realized I would soon have enough money that I had better start thinking about how to manage it. I knew I needed help. Furthermore, my focus was on learning how to be a first officer while still juggling my Air Force Reserve career.  

Many questions ran through my head. The biggest and most important was, How can I protect my money? The money I had worked so hard to accumulate. What I found surprised me.  Many financial advisors wanting my business were not fiduciaries. Some of these advisors were very intelligent and could sell with the best. One problem, they only had a suitable duty of care to me versus a fiduciary standard.   

The Suitability Standard 

The suitability standard means an advisor or broker only had to put my money into investments they deemed adequate. They did not need to give me advice that put my interests ahead of their own.    

The Fiduciary Standard 

A fiduciary is someone who acts on behalf of another person and has a legal and ethical obligation to put their clients’ interests ahead of their own.  SEC Chairman Jay Clayton defined the fiduciary responsibility this way, This duty  comprised of both a duty of care and a duty of loyalty  is principlesbased and applies to the entire relationship between the investment adviser and the client. When someone is a fiduciary, it applies to the entire relationship, not parts of it. It is the highest standard in the financial world.  

You may be saying, Okay. Great! Aren’t all financial advisors’ fiduciaries? Unfortunately, the term financial advisor is very nebulous and can apply talmost anyone.  In fact, most financial advisors are not fiduciaries.  Furthermore, more than half of respondents (53 percent) to a 2017 Financial Engines survey mistakenly believe that all financial advisorare already legally required to put their clients’ best interests first.    

Regulation Best Interest, aka “Reg BI”? 

Reg BI, effective January 1st, 2020, attempted to improve upon the suitability standard and move the ethical bar higher for anyone who calls themselves a financial advisor.  Instead of only having a suitable duty, they are now supposed to have a best interest duty. The regulation takes several steps to raise the bar (like having to disclose conflicts of interest); however, it does not change the dynamics of how a non-fiduciary advisor operates or receives compensation  

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” ~Upton Sinclair  

I believe this is what Reg BI attempts to do. It tries to get brokers to act in the client’s best interest, but their salary often depends on him not doing so. I fear that many advisors will continue finding ways to put clients in funds that pay them a commission. Even in the regulation itself, the term best interest is ill-defined and very open to interpretation.  

Fee-Only versus Fee-Based 

The critical distinction is that an advisor operating under Reg BI castilbe paid by a 3rd party tpuclient’s money in certain investments or insurance products.  In other words, if an advisor gets paid by a third party (mutual fund company or insurance/annuity company) to put your money in certain investments or insurance products, then there is a conflict of interest.  And athat moment, the advisor needto disclose that they arNOT acting in a fiduciary capacity.      

Most fiduciaries operate in a fee-only manner.  This means the client’s fees are the onlsource of income for the advisor, and they are not paid commissions from third parties or outside sources that could bring into question the objectivity of the advice given.  Be sure to understand thdistinction between a fee-based financial advisor who may earn a commission and a fee versus a fee-only advisor.  The languagis very nebulous and confusing for a reason.   

Back to my personal journey in search of a trustworthy financial advisor; During one conversation, I asked, Do you have a fiduciary duty to me? What should have been a simple yes or no, was instead a bunch of hemming and hawing, but no real answer. Not to be deterred, I asked again. This time I received another vague response, so I asked once more. Finally, thiadvisor told me he only had a suitable responsibility (today, he would have told me he had a best interest responsibility).  Case closed! He may have been a great advisor, but he had no legal obligation to dwhat was best for my family and me 

 I wanted my financial advisor to do what was in my highest interest. Furthermore, I wanted someone whose advice was objective and had no incentive to put me in a particular mutual fund. For me, the fiduciary advisor is the answer.  

“How do you find out if someone has a fiduciary responsibility to you? This one is easy, ask.  

Ask the following question, If I hire you as my advisordo you always have a fiduciary duty to me?” If the answer is not a fairly quick, “Yes” I advise looking elsewhere. If it is, follow it uwith this question“To be clear, you never put on a broker hat and always have a fiduciary responsibility tme? The answer should again be, yes. 

Beyond asking, you should also be able to find out by looking at the disclosures on their website or looking at their Form ADV Part 2A/Firm Brochure or the new Client Relationship Statement (CRS) mandated by Reg BI. 

When I became an advisor, I knew I wanted to do it the right way and act as a fiduciary for my clients.  Thankfully, Leading Edge Financial Planning (LEFP) shares this belief. Our Form ADV Part 2A says this: 

Item 10: Other Financial Industry Activities and AffiliationsNo LEFP employee is registered or has an application pendinto register as a broker-dealer or a registered representative of a broker-dealer. LEFP only receives compensation directly from our clients. We do not receive compensation from any outside source, nor do we pay referral fees to outside sources for client referrals.” 

 If you have gotten this far and not fallen asleep, I thank you. As you now know, I am a fiduciary and vow to protect my clients’ hard-earned money with the highest devotion to their goals. Until next time, I hope you have only tailwinds and blue skies! 

Robert E. Eklund, CRD # 7317768 
Investment Advisor Representative  
www.leadingedgeplanning.com 

Robert Eklund

Financial Planner

Rob is a Southwest Pilot and soon to be retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel. He grew up working on his family’s ranch in Colorado and went to high school in Alaska.  In 2000, he graduated from the United States Air Force Academy, earning a Bachelor of Science degree in Legal Studies.  Rob has served over twenty years in the Air Force, ten years on active duty, and over ten in the Reserves. During his military career he flew the C-130 while stationed in Germany and the KC-10 in California. Rob has accumulated over 700 hours of combat flying hours and participated in multiple Operations.  He was hired by Southwest Airlines in 2013 and became a staff officer at USNORTHCOM’s Domestic Operations Division in 2016. While holding this position as an Air Planner, Rob helped areas recover from Hurricane disasters; specifically, he was called to active duty to aid in recovery efforts following Hurricane Maria.

While studying at the Academy, Rob discovered his enthusiasm for the study of personal finance and investing.  As his military service comes to a close, he is excited to combine his passion for helping and protecting others with his enthusiasm for personal finance.  This culminated in 2020 with Rob passing the Series 65 Uniform Investment Advisor Law Exam and joining the Leading Edge team as a fiduciary advisor.  A fiduciary’s role comes naturally to him as he enjoys helping people whether that benefits him or not.  Rob knows the tremendous trust clients place in their financial advisors, and it is his goal to grow that trust through the highest level of transparency and integrity.  In his personal life, Rob married up to the love of his life and has been married for 18 years. He is overwhelmingly proud of his son, whom he recently donated a kidney.
Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product made reference to directly or indirectly in this post will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), or be suitable for your portfolio. Moreover, you should not assume that any information or any corresponding discussions serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Leading Edge Financial Planning personnel. The opinions expressed are those of Leading Edge Financial Planning as of 02/10/2021 and are subject to change at any time due to the changes in market or economic conditions.